https://www.posetteforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=602
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Den Tracy
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 05:04 AM

Time to move on
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I have been around the 3D art forums for not quite two years and have always
felt out of place in almost all of them.
I didn't and haven't learned anything to improve what I do by being a member, past or present in any of them.

This leads me to finally come to the conclusion that I am truly wasting my time
posting images all over the place.
Ever since I started posting images, they were seen as entertainment in the sea
of other images. 
This was great for the longest time, but I can't see myself doing this for much longer.

I have some options :

(1) Take a lengthy break from Poser. There is the possibility that I will never
      go back to it.
(2) Find a true cartoon forum where I will be with "my own kind"
(3) Start my own website where people would willingly go to see my efforts rather
     than have the bitchers and moaners silently saying "not another stupid
     cartoon" and putting up with it.
(4) Keep going as before (not likely)...

I don't see the point to hang around merely as a source of entertainment for a number of lurkers. I tried disabling the comments over at Renderosity, but I received PM's saying that they should be left on. I turned them on again, but it's
always the same comments.
What I am trying to say is that I really don't need people to tell me that what I do is funny. I already know that it is. I do this all the time.
It's not like someone, Ken for instance, who does 99% serious images and then does a cartoon. People would find that funny, because he doesn't make funny images all the time.

Maybe multi-panel images are a bad idea and waste of time to be shown in the 
various galleries. I have been dropping hints here and there as well as PM's about
not posting any more images.
Perhaps my images will be missed by some of you, but that's the way it goes.
I think that I have done too many for my own good.
On Wednesday I will wrap up the current series and decide what to do after that.


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Deviant_Viking
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:11 AM

Re: Time to move on
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[quote="Den Tracy";p="5794"]It's not like someone, Ken for instance, who does 99% serious images and then does a cartoon. People would find that funny, because he doesn't make funny images all the time.[/quote]
Problem there is, people don't take my serious images serious after awhile.
So when you do a serious image, it usualy leaves a bigger impression.

You know your images will be missed. But I understand if you decide to stop.
I've wanted to several times too, and still think about it.
But if I stop, who'll then take the role as the deviant? The one who'll pump in the seriousness, the originality, the pieces that make you think?
Sure, I'm not the only one. But there aren't that many of us either.
As you Den, you're one of the few that does these comic panels. You give us a much-needed laughter after (or before) a hard day, and reminds us we need to take things less seriously sometimes.

It feels like the 'head honchos' around here are the 'poser outcast'. We don't go with the flow. We don't go wit the NVIATWAS and the 'half naked chick with arms out against a dark stone wall' (god, there are more of those than there are of those bloody NVIA's...)

Well, enough ramblings..  in the end, it's your choice


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 04:10 PM

Re: Time to move on
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Hi Den, I really don't remember the number of you retirements  [-( ...

I don't understand what's your expectation from you artworks, I suppose you want to become famous: ok, then you've to paint about 1000 of your multi-panel pictures, make a book, send it to a lot of publishing houses and wait for a reply...

About commenting your pictures, imagine this scene: I buy a comic book and I've to comment every single multi-panel page... It's boring, on the contrary  I can criticize the whole book. I'm a friend of yours and I usually comment your pictures, but a "common" lurker simply see it, smiles and go.

My suggestion for you is to build a portfolio site with a guestbook for comment your whole work, and post your pictures on renderosity without allowing comments, saying that if they like your work they can write something to your guestbook and place a link to your portfolio site, where are all your pictures.

In this way you can measure the level of agreeement that people have to you and decide what to do.

I don't understand this kind of problems because I paint only for my own amusement, if people like my works is ok, if they don't like them is not a very big problem. In the real life I've my work as a bus driver and I have not a lot of ambitions, I need only a peaceful life, if I want I make a picture or do nothing for months. Also I made this place only for amusement, if it has success or not it's not a problem for me: in any cases I'll earn nothing from it (and I want to earn nothing). So Den, I can't understand you, or I don't share your ideas. I'm not saying that they are wrong but that we have different points of view and I can't understand yours.


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Den Tracy
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 05:13 PM


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A book is something entirely different because you buy the book to read it and the publishers believe that the book will sell.

Renderosity, to me, is a waste of time.
People there are only interested in images with big breasts, period.
The more suggestive or nudity content, the greater the views.
If I left up the ballerina pic, it would have been the image with the most views for me.
It was put up to prove a point. Close to 400 in less than 2 days. Anything else barely makes
a hundred after several days.
When (*NUDITY*) is mentioned in the title, they flock to it like flies around a shitpile.
Anybody can do nudity. You don't even have to know anything about Poser. All you have to
do is load in a default female character with arms out and click Render. If you want to be "creative"
add some props and voila, you are the "Ooooo and Ahhhhh" master. :-k 
That's bullshit  :lmao: 

If you are not on someone's favourite artist list, nobody looks at what you do over there, no matter how good it is.
I don't have anything against Renderosity, but I find most people very immature over there.
There is no "problem" that I am aware of. I have mentioned things in the past concerning my views on the 3D art scene. It appears to be crawling with thieves trying to make money from someone else's efforts.

What I was trying to say is that I have learned NOTHING from the mainstream 3D forums, absolutely nothing, because there were/are not any individuals to tell me how I could improve any of my images.
Postwork is a waste of time because of the speech bubbles covering up the props and a lot of other things.
The forums were supposed to be a place where I thought that I could get feedback from people who looked at my efforts. The group of people in all sites combined was quite small out of hundreds of people.
This is not about me getting comments, patting me on the back or feeding my ego or becoming famous.
I have asked for opinions on images and received little or no feedback whatsoever.
You won't get famous on any Poser site.
Your images might make people look, but they also make people ignore you.
I don't have any expectations from my work and maybe that is the problem.
All the images that I have posted were for the benefit of my friends.


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 06:46 PM


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The only way I know to improve my skill is to read a lot of tutorials, only Virtualsite gave me some good suggestions at the very beginning. The truth is that the "arts" world is full of egomaniacs. If you suggest something to the author of a picture that looks like crap usually you can offend him, who fell him/herself like the new Michelangelo... So the reaction is to say nothing and live happily.

(I'm not saying that your picture are crap  O:) )

P.S. Where is your old avatar  8-[  ?


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 06:49 PM


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P.P.S.

The real purpouse of the "poser" sites is not to teach something but to sell a lot in their store, so you told me nothing new saying that you've learned nothing, all is finalized to the store and the bannermania.


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Den Tracy
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:21 PM


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I know that I haven't told you anything new, it just doesn't make a whole lot of
sense, that is all.

What old avatar ?  :-k 
Hmmm...there have been many of late... :whistle: 

Me banging my head in the corner wearing a dunce cap ?
or...
The John Holmes one with two interested females probing around "below the equator" ?
(my personal favourite which YOU, Tormentor, put in...)
or...
the dead Godzilla with the R.I.P. ?

You'll have to tell me which one, cuz I don't know which one you are talking about. 8-[


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:26 PM


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[quote]
my personal favourite which YOU, Tormentor, put in..
[/quote]

ME ?  :? 

 :dontknow: I made nothing, maybe the norwegian guy who has access to the administration panel  :-s ....


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:27 PM


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Or a ghost  :shocked!:


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:30 PM


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Sigh.... Sigh... I'm not guilty of everything wrong here  :crybaby: !


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Den Tracy
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:35 PM


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Ken likely doesn't know who J. Holmes is...
(If he finds out, he might be ruined pschologically)

However, you do...so don't try and BS me, "Dave"  :bigrinnin:


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Don Vito Corleone
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:40 PM


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I can confirm that my close friend TORMENTOR did nothing, you've to trust me...


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e_garcia
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 07:56 PM


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I got Capone and now I'm gonna get you Corleone... :rightfighter1:


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Don Vito Corleone
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 08:30 PM


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If history has taught us anything, it's that you can kill anybody


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Don Vito Corleone
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 08:36 PM


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Mmmh... Tormie Tormie... You are earning a lot of candies in your casino'... And you said me nothing  :x  ... It's not good.... Where is my percentage ?


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Tormie
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 08:37 PM


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*SIGH*  :crybaby: My candies...  ](*,)


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Deviant_Viking
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 10:23 PM


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[quote="Den Tracy";p="5804"]What I was trying to say is that I have learned NOTHING from the mainstream 3D forums, absolutely nothing, because there were/are not any individuals to tell me how I could improve any of my images.
Postwork is a waste of time because of the speech bubbles covering up the props and a lot of other things. [/quote]
The problem is, there usualy isn't anything [that I can see] that needs improvement.
Except for that one speech bubble that was making confusion I commented on, there hasn't really been anything  :-k 
Face it Den, you've perfectionized what you do  :bigrinnin:


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Landman
Tuesday, 27 January 2004, 10:34 PM


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[quote]
The problem is, there usualy isn't anything [that I can see] that needs improvement. 
Except for that one speech bubble that was making confusion I commented on, there hasn't really been anything  
Face it Den, you've perfectionized what you do  
[/quote]


If that ain't a complement I don't know what is!!! :-s


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Den Tracy
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 12:57 AM


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I see... so does that mean that I have learned all that there is to possibly know ?
Looks like a big YES to me.
The defense rests its case.

Yes Landman, to the untrained eye it does appear to be a complement in disguise at first glance.
After hours of analysis, it would appear not to be the case...  :bigrinnin: 

Just kidding Ken.
It looks like you may be right.
So...what the hell am I doing here with the rest of you ?  :-k  :-k  :-k 

BYE-BYE !  :bigrinnin:


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Deviant_Viking
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 06:37 AM


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Oh, so now you're suddenly too good for us, eh?
Tsk  :-({|=


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Ozymandias Jones
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 01:00 PM


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The most important thing is to enjoy what you do for your own sake. Any artistic endeavour should be to please the artist first, anything else is simply a bonus.

Den, the fact that your art/'toons reach so many people who share a joke with you is something to be very proud of, in my humble opinion :) . 

Your skill in rendering that art in such an accessable form is not to be underestimated. As I have commented before, your posing and expressions carry so much weight in your images that the emotions/feelings/opinions of the characters in the images is instantly recognisable to all. That is a skill that is seldon recognised or commented on but is often registered subliminally by the viewer, who may not even be able to pinpoint the reason the image works so well.

Nobody has ever claimed that Gray Larson is the great modern artist of our time... but a heluva lot of people sure miss his little 'toons now he's stopped doing them. I think there would be a lot of people around the Poser forums that would think the same way about your work.

Just my two-cents :)


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Den Tracy
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 03:19 PM

Re: Time to move on
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Ken, I was only kidding about the last comment. Remember, I have a box full of sarcasm
hand grenades (mostly used at PoserPros in the Discussion Forum)... :bigrinnin:


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Den Tracy
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 03:27 PM


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This made me less than popular with some regulars, but that's just too damn bad...


Mr. Jones.
Your comment about Gary Larson rings true.
He was an inspiration when I saw his strange humour on a daily basis and wondered
how someone could come up with these things day after day.
When I started using Poser nearly two years ago, I was able to do things that I
would not have been able to do without getting bored along the way.
Poser was my "vehicle" to bring my ideas and characters to life.

There is an old saying that you never knew what you had until it's gone.


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Deviant_Viking
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 04:31 PM


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And you shoulda known I know you were kidding : ::razz:


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Landman
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 04:31 PM


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Amen!! :clap:


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 07:15 PM


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:bigrinnin: Maybe  I've to go for a tour on PoserPros one of these days but actually I've enough time only for Posetteforever  :heartbeat: , just to see the reactions.

I don't know who is Gary Larson...  :-k

... And Den, be careful, with this version of the site I've installed an automated "throw the damn snob out of the window" procedure administrated directly by Posy...  :whistle:


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Landman
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 07:49 PM


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[quote]
 don't know who is Gary Larson... 
[/quote]


http://www.thefarside.com/   :-s 

 #-o  you've been missing out!!!  :-k


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 08:27 PM


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"available in the U.S. only"

(not for macaroni  :x )


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 08:28 PM


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... However I'm curious and I know two or three ways to have the videos  :bigrinnin:


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 08:30 PM


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... Tomorrow I'll have the videos  :bigrinnin: ...


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Landman
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 09:15 PM


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[quote]
... Tomorrow I'll have the videos  ... 
[/quote]

Coolness!! :D/ 

I just got high score at pac-man!! :bigrinnin:  :D/ 

Its a shame that i have nothing better to do at work...... [-(  :roll:


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 09:24 PM


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:bigrinnin: That's the right spirit !


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Tormie
Wednesday, 28 January 2004, 09:26 PM


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I can install other games, here is the list:

http://www.inetangel.com/downloads/games/

just choose...


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Ozymandias Jones
Thursday, 29 January 2004, 12:53 PM


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I like the PP comic above, Den.  :lmao: 

So, you trampled over a few sacred egos, did you [-X 

Good to see  :bigrinnin:


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Den Tracy
Thursday, 29 January 2004, 08:04 PM


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The "Site Bashing 101" was commented on as being funny.
Many who viewed it probably had little use for me after that, but
it is true and I can live without their lurker viewing.
I don't know who the silent lurkers are anyway, but I sure would like
to find out who the other people are when I get a half dozen or
so comments.
That's the favourite thing to do, bash Renderosity again and again.
The point was that if you don't like what they do, don't bother
with it.
I don't bother looking at topics that deal with that nonsense because
it is the same thing over and over.
Who cares anyway ?


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Ozymandias Jones
Friday, 30 January 2004, 12:13 AM


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Funny thing is, I've never had any problems at 'rosity.

I go there, rape the freebies section, glance through the gallery at anything that might be interesting and move on. I seldom go to the forums. No point, really. I don't have that much time to waste on endless discussion of the V3 navel morphs  :bigrinnin: 

The reason I don't have problems is I don't get into the politics... of the site personalities, site wars and the co's behind Poser and the various programs we use. Sheesh!

Same for PoserPros and the rest. 

If I have a real technical question, I usually ask over at PP. Jaager is great for tech help so are a few others (Sean AKA VirtualSite and Ironbear to name just two who spring to mind)) who have been more than helpful both at PP and other forums.

But I learned to beware of the politics and backstabbing  8-[  I started to get really involved at first, posted a few images, no views and no comments (they were not the latest Vicky in the latest fantasySuit/Bat-Labs-bikini/adventure outfit), jumped into the 'heavy' discussions... then I cooled it a bit. It's very easy to get sucked into some great (but totally insignificant) conflict. 

Now I just browse and have some fun.

That's why I like this little place we have here  :) 

If people get offended by obvious satire, Den, then they need to lighten up a little. It's their problem, not yours.


