https://www.posetteforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=820 ----------------------------------- pappino Saturday, 22 May 2004, 08:39 PM A little experiment... ----------------------------------- Hi folks, I conducted a little experiment, as a comparison between Poser Pros Gallery and here at Posetteforever. I decided the results were worth a comment here at the Posetteforever forum. I posted my image entitled, 'Guardians of The Valley', here an also at Poser Pros Gallery. At Poser Pros the image attracted one comment and that had to do more with Poser 5 than it did directly with the image itself. Here at Posetteforever, the exact same image attracted eight comments in comparison. Sure suggest where a new comer is more welcomed. Just thought I'd say thanks for the welcome to a home away from home... :) Ciao, Phil ----------------------------------- tda42 Saturday, 22 May 2004, 08:43 PM ----------------------------------- Any time Phil! :bigrinnin: Your family here.From on Harley biker to another, Vrooom Vroooom! :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 22 May 2004, 10:10 PM ----------------------------------- :bigrinnin: Here we are about 20 active users, this is a little place and it's easy to see and appreciate the pictures. I don't know exactly why there are so many good persons here :heartbeat: ... It happened... I'm only sorry for not commenting so much in the album, but usually I see and comment all the old pictures when I've the right mood :) ... ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Sunday, 23 May 2004, 03:16 AM ----------------------------------- Phil, you and I know what the mindset is over at PoserPros and other commercial sites. You can't go wrong here and that's a fact. Too many "I'm better than you" types over there and it shows. The gallery over there is a place to see how future new products in the store will be accepted by the response of those who care to comment. I refuse to comment on merchants renders, wips or anything else. Actually, there isn't anything in their renders worthy of comment anyway. Does anybody really care about some lame "product" that hundreds of people will purchase and make renders of ? It's like buying vegetables and making a salad. All that you do different is garnish it and how long it takes you to eat it. Also there are dozens of egomaniacs only interested in what others think of their work and don't give two shits about what you or anyone else posts who is not a merchant or in their little clique of friends. I could name 100 without even trying, but most of you already know who they are. EVEN IF THEY COULD LEARN SOMETHING FROM YOUR WORK, THEY SIMPLY WON'T LOOK AND ALL THEY DO IS LOOK DOWN THEIR NOSES AT OTHERS. MOST OF THEM THINK THAT THEY ARE SUPERIOR, BUT IT SHOWS IN THEIR "ART". They are just too full of themselves for my liking. It took me awhile to figure this out, but it is a pattern that repeats itself day after day and is not exclusive to PoserPros. Things like this used to bother me, but not anymore. The only reason that I posted a few images there recently is due to emails from a few people who genuinely missed me. Unfortunately, artistic ability comes from within and not just being able to flash around a credit card and buy the latest things. Someone asked me to do some tutorials about posing and expression. I told that person that all anyone had to do was look at any of my images. In them you will see how to make a storyboard, pose and express your characters, give them personalities and many other things. Making my characters as realistic as possible as far as behaviour has always been paramount to me. What they are dressed in is irrelevant. Anyway, as far as PosetteForever is concerned, the people here have made me a better "artist" because of their encouragement and support. It truly has been an honour to know each and everyone of you. I hope that I can find it within myself to return to this place once again after May 28th. ----------------------------------- tda42 Sunday, 23 May 2004, 06:31 AM ----------------------------------- Ok May 28th it is then. :bigrinnin: I'll see you on the 29th Den. :bigrinnin: Signed your secret admirer.Damn forgot the Avatar. :-# :-k ](*,) :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- JanReinar Sunday, 23 May 2004, 12:58 PM ----------------------------------- You are welcome here my friend! 'Guardians of The Valley' are a very nice picture and it is important for us! For them is more important that you don't used the "last dragon for mount in sale this week"! We are good people here, they are good traders there! They comment only who purchase them merchandise! ----------------------------------- Ozymandias Jones Monday, 24 May 2004, 03:59 AM ----------------------------------- Hey, welcome along. We always appreciate the contubutors to our little album (which is growing quite large of late). Thanks for taking the time to say 'Hi' and post your pics here. ----------------------------------- pappino Monday, 24 May 2004, 05:56 AM ----------------------------------- Hi Folks, I could try to think of something original and spectacular to write in response to all the comments, but I really don't think that's necessary. I'll just say, "Thanks to all..." Ciao, Phil :) ----------------------------------- Paul Mon Monday, 24 May 2004, 11:58 AM ----------------------------------- Hiya Phil Don't be embarrassed about having a harley....not everyone can cope with going fast :lmao: :bigrinnin: Only messing with ya...welcome to Possetteforever ----------------------------------- Angela Monday, 24 May 2004, 01:46 PM ----------------------------------- I've a Vespa :bigrinnin: ! ----------------------------------- tda42 Monday, 24 May 2004, 01:52 PM ----------------------------------- I would like to have a Vespa in the states and there is two dealers in my state.Tell me how you like yours and what year and model is it.Alot of info would help Angela.Thank you! :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Angela Monday, 24 May 2004, 02:36 PM ----------------------------------- Oh, I don't know :oops: ... I know that it's very old because uncle Tormie doesn't have much money :bigrinnin: ! ----------------------------------- Tormie Monday, 24 May 2004, 02:36 PM ----------------------------------- :oops: :oops: :oops: ! ----------------------------------- Posy Monday, 24 May 2004, 02:37 PM ----------------------------------- [-( [-( [-( ----------------------------------- Angela Monday, 24 May 2004, 02:37 PM ----------------------------------- :oops: :oops: :oops: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: ----------------------------------- pbnj Monday, 24 May 2004, 03:21 PM ----------------------------------- [b]note 1:[/b] having recently submitted an item to poser pros, im now allowed to view their merchant forums and to be honest they totally encourage people to swamp that place with their products. banners, ads, product showcase images, forum plugs, etc. it all seems kind of hinky to me. hinky meaning not quite right, kinda slimy, very pushy. ](*,) i don't wanna be a used car salesman dammit, and thats what it feels like. :x i can understand its purpose (i guess) but its not comfortable for me. #-o i dont wanna badger people with self serving plugs and no content/story images. its a nice community and all (better then a couple others i can name) but i remember it a couple years ago when it wasn't all about sales and beating out daz or r'osity. you certainly can't beat the warm and friendly people here that actually care about their art and don't just crank out the same image with the same products day after day. you guys care about people too, learning and sharing with each other. :crybaby: its just too cool, im all teary. [b]note 2:[/b] VESPAS RULE! they are soooo cute and i want one sooooo bad but living in ohio isn't the best places for something like this. it's raining and snowing 8 months out of the year, heh. though they are not as expensive as i feared it wouldn't be worth it to only be able to use it 3-4 months out of the year. i actually saw a young kid on one yesterday, the people in traffic behind him did not look happy though, :lol: . the particilar street he was on is 35 mile per hour but the cars never go that speed, its more like 50 mph, heh. ----------------------------------- ahjah Monday, 24 May 2004, 04:03 PM ----------------------------------- I had a Vespa :heartbeat: when I was young(er), ´bout 24 years ago... I rode it summer and winter thru ice and snow ,too It allways started at the first kick, less than 2l fuel/100km and very reliable great vehicle :clap: :clap: ----------------------------------- tda42 Monday, 24 May 2004, 05:01 PM ----------------------------------- Thanks everyone and thank you most of all Angela for bringing that wonderful machine up for talk.I loved it when I was in Italy and I love it now. :heartbeat: :heartbeat: :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Posy Monday, 24 May 2004, 05:01 PM ----------------------------------- Right now? What does "it" refer to? So do a lot of other people. ----------------------------------- Tormie Monday, 24 May 2004, 05:28 PM ----------------------------------- :bigrinnin: Vespas slide happily on rain and snow ! you will find your butt on the rude asphalt very fast!! Talking about poserpros and other commerical forums (fora). I'm not "against" those kind of places, but one has to see them in the right perspective: they are first of all commercial places, their owners' work is to sell 3d products or earn money with the shop, they are not mainly an "art" place, so if someone (like me) don't want to buy something the right spirit is to use their free services for his own amusement. There is nothing wrong in owning a place for selling products with a free forum and a gallery in it, but I think that the right place for sharing pure art should be a totally free place without commercialism. The other side of the coin is that a free place like this has a price that must be paid anyway, actually I paid for it myself with my (little :oops: ) bus driver's wages, but if the community will grow too much I thought to a free donation program to feed the place. In any case Posetteforever will never have banners, ads, popups or a shop (If you come here from posetteforever.tk you'll see the banner of dot.tk free domain service, I placed it only to support the little Tokelau community). I think that it's enough for have fun :bigrinnin: but not for the success of our artists, so I encourage you all to publish your beautiful pictures also in commercial sites where there are a lot of people... I have the biggest satisfactions here, but I have also friends (and a few fans) on other places, so I use the other sites without pity :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Ozymandias Jones Monday, 24 May 2004, 11:04 PM ----------------------------------- Right behind you, Tormie :) I have no problem with a commercial site, especially one that does not hide the fact that it is commercial. I run two businesses and I can be very aggressive in marketing and pushing them, if I don't, I starve, simple as that! As much as my main business is about design, an art form in its own way, at the end of each job I must get paid. I don't like sites that are sneeky about their maketing :x , but the world is a very competitive place, so some do what they must to survive I suppose. I just don't go there very much. Maybe once in a while to take advantage of the free stuff :bigrinnin: . I have puchased some items over time from various sites and dealers. But most of their marketing is wasted on me [-( And the politics and backstabbing... I get enough of that in my real world profession to go looking for the same on line when I supposed to be relaxing =; On the other hand we have this great place, thanks to Tormie. And here I'll stay :clap: ----------------------------------- JanReinar Tuesday, 25 May 2004, 12:08 PM ----------------------------------- I agree with Ozzie in all! :bigrinnin: :clap: ----------------------------------- tda42 Tuesday, 25 May 2004, 02:17 PM ----------------------------------- Hey who farted? :sick: ----------------------------------- Tormie Tuesday, 25 May 2004, 07:08 PM ----------------------------------- [-( [-( ----------------------------------- pappino Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 02:40 AM ----------------------------------- This is just a little thank you for all of the various comments that my experiment had produced. A special thanks to tda42 for pointing out that we are old Harley buddies. He's still a rider, but I hung up my boots a long time ago. I'm glad that tda42's mentioning that we are old Harley pals, has drawn several comments to such. Tormentor... please note, the purpose of my post was a comparison between Poser Pros and Posetteforever. This experiment was conducted as a comparison with respect to number of comments received. The same image was posted at each site for this comparison. I simply posted the results at this forum, to show the results of my experiment. My experiment has nothing to do with the fact that one of the sites is a commercial site. You are entitled to your opinion of commercial sites and so am I. The fact that one of the sites is commercial, has nothing to do with my little experiment. My purpose was simply to find out what kind of response I would receive at both sites. The results of the experiment were posted here as I found them to be. If you've taken my posting here as being negative in anyway, you are barking up the wrong tree. If that be the case, then I suggest that you return to the original post and read it again. If you find anything within my post suggesting that commercial sites suck and should be avoided, then I shall reward you accordingly. I'm a little too old and far too ornery to let anyone put words into my mouth, or to insinuate that my purpose is anything other than what is stated. Again, thanks to all for your comments. As always, they are appreciated. Ciao, Phil ----------------------------------- Ozymandias Jones Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 04:19 AM ----------------------------------- Hi Phil, Not meaning to take it the wrong way. I did understand what you were saying and it makes me proud of this little place that the results were the way they were and that you would post the results with us. I just fell back into my own paradigm in my reply and was not trying to put words into your mouth (or post, as the case may be :) ). Thanks for sharing with us here. And never fear, we'll not rope you into any political agendas... at least not until the thought police have had their lunch break... :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Paul Mon Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 11:42 AM ----------------------------------- Vespas are ok but for a really good scooter you need a Lambretta GP :) First vehicle I owned and I loved it ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 01:25 PM ----------------------------------- I don't think that anyone has said that commercial sites suck, me included. They are there to make money, but have lost their focus as being communities devoted to 3D art. They should say that they are stores to buy products and nothing more. Commercial sites are more concerned about sales and marketing the products of other artists than the finished images of others or using the products. Whether or not you use the products that you purchased is of no concern. As long as you are happy and keep buying, then that's all that matters to the commercial sites. Tormentor and others have said this many times. What I have noticed as long as I was at PoserPros is that merchants comment on images with their products in them, other merchants and friends in the clique(s). This is high school mentality. There is also a large group that will ignore you if you can do something that they cannot. On any of the sites that I have ever been on, this is the ONLY site where administrators will actually comment on images. You rarely, if ever, get that elsewhere. Most of them won't even notice your existence unless you are unhappy with your "purchase". Then, they notice you for a brief instant. Since I never bought anything, I was never noticed...period. Many, many good people have been turned off from Poser by the people in the commercial sites and their behaviour. They either quit or go elsewhere. ----------------------------------- pbnj Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 03:22 PM ----------------------------------- i have been to such places :-s i've even been to a couple sites that when i go to the help or tutorial sections in the forums with questions i've been told 'i dont have time to answer that question'. ... but you had the time... to tell me you didn't have time to help...? why the heck bother commenting at all??? ](*,) it can be VERY discouraging. sometimes and in some places people are so busy selling things, guarding 'trade secrets' and smooshing with their cliches it's hard to find a comfortable and helpful place. speaking of 'trade secrets' i could start an entire rant on that subject, heh, but i'll save it for some other time. i really want to get my mom into 3d/poser, she's a digital art nut too, heh. but her's it more of the signature tags and small 2d art communities kind of thing. i've been telling her all about the cool things you can do with poser and all the cool freebies items out there so all she'd need to purchase is a old copy of P4 (like i did, heh). but she's very nervous about how people will treat her being completely new to the 3D universe and poser. i was concerned too until i found this place :) can't wait until i get her all setup and then i'm gonna drag her in here. :dancing: ----------------------------------- Tormie Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 09:20 PM ----------------------------------- Sorry pappino, my reply to your message was: [quote] Here we are about 20 active users, this is a little place and it's easy to see and appreciate the pictures. I don't know exactly why there are so many good persons here ... It happened... I'm only sorry for not commenting so much in the album, but usually I see and comment all the old pictures when I've the right mood ... [/quote] What I wrote later was only a reply to Den Tracy, whose opinions is well known, I respect them even if I'm less radical, but anyway Den Tracy is a friend even if I know for sure that he eat children :whistle: ... I'm not really interested in those kind of experiments Pappino, simply because Poserpros and Posetteforever are two very different sites and the result of the comparison can have only a little sense. We were only pointing on those differences: if not, I don't know what to discuss, the other option is: The people here are good, the people there suck, and I don't like those kind of discussion... So what's the point ? I don't understand... Poserpros users haven't commented your pics... and ?? What I can say anymore is only that we are a very little community so we use to see, appreciate and comment the pictures of all of us. Personally I've difficulties to see the whole album because I'm very busy in this period, but when I've enough free time I see and comment each picture. I'm sure that if our community will grow too much you wouldn't see so many comments under your pics only because there would be too many pictures. I don't like to write an opinion on other sites, it could seem "unfair" and start "wars"... In any case I agree with Den's last reply, but Den, if you search in Poserpros you'll see in the older posts that they opened the place because they haven't agreed the commercial politics of Renderosity and the way the Renderosity's shop was ruled. As far as I know they never have been[i] a community devoted to 3D art [/i]. I understand your feeling but they never lied, you (and me) simply misunderstood. I liked the place in the first period, when there wasn't shops or banners but when they appeared I saw clearly that I simply thought in the wrong way and I believed in something that was real only in my head :no: . The image that I had was a place like this :bigrinnin: so I simply built it :bigrinnin:. pbnj: The fact that in a commercial site all goes to the money is natural, moderators and admins are paid for their time, but, I repeat, there's nothing wrong, the place is there for money earning, you've to see the things in the right perspective and you'll be no more angry :bigrinnin: We are waiting for your mom :heartbeat: !! Paul Mon: Lambrettas are very rare and costs a lot $$$ !!! Ozy: You're the wise man here, I think that's because you're living upside-down in Australia so the blood goes more easily to the brain :bigrinnin: ... ... And I'm sorry that my english is so poor ! Sometime I has been misunderstood, I promise to open again my old english book from the school time and study more :^o :^o :^o :^o :^o P.S. ... I had to finish a Posy picture #-o ... And I passed a lot of time on this post... >sigh!< ----------------------------------- Posy Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 09:33 PM ----------------------------------- :whipitgood: :whipitgood: [-( [-( ----------------------------------- Tormie Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 09:33 PM ----------------------------------- :crybaby: :heartbeat: :heartbeat: :heartbeat: ----------------------------------- Posy Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 09:33 PM ----------------------------------- :) :heartbeat: :heartbeat: :heartbeat: ----------------------------------- pappino Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 10:13 PM ----------------------------------- Hi Folks, Just a note to say that my original comment here with respect to a comparison, was meant only as a comparison of the number of comments received for the same image at both sites. Posetteforever came out as the outstanding and uncontested winner. My comments here were meant only as a 'compliment'. That compliment was meant for everyone here at Posetteforever. My follow-up comments were simply to clear up any notion that my original comment had anything to do with any particular site being a commercial site. Tormentor, we both know that our mutual friend eats children, but I'm one of the guys that feeds them to him. Hopefully I haven't written anything that was taken in a negative way. If that be the case, it wasn't my intention, so if anyone went away with that notion, then you have my heart felt apologies. As an old Army tank commander, I have a bad habit of hitting you over the head with something. I always figured that if you hit someone over the head with something, there is far less chance that they will forget it. No harm meant... Again, if anything I've written here was taken wrong, you have my apology. Ciao, Phil ----------------------------------- pbnj Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 10:21 PM ----------------------------------- i'm not angry at them for being a commerical site. i understand that. commerical places are needed/wanted. just dont have a help forum if you don't have 'time' to help. 8-[ life's too short to get too angry at people, heh so i just say pfft! :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- tda42 Wednesday, 26 May 2004, 11:53 PM ----------------------------------- Den eats children? 8-[ ----------------------------------- Ozymandias Jones Thursday, 27 May 2004, 12:53 AM ----------------------------------- Didn't you know? :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 28 May 2004, 11:55 AM ----------------------------------- I've noticed over at PP that after I [near] stopped commenting on other's work, my own received comments have dropped drastically. I guess the 'buddy-system' is also a large factor over there. I mostly just comment on pics that does something for me, which as of late has been very few of. But I guess this'll help me see who appreciates my art for my art, and not for the comments I give other people ----------------------------------- tda42 Friday, 28 May 2004, 01:46 PM ----------------------------------- So who did he bribe? :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 28 May 2004, 01:49 PM ----------------------------------- I stopped bribing, that's the 'problem' ----------------------------------- tda42 Friday, 28 May 2004, 01:50 PM ----------------------------------- :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lol: :lol: I understand Ken. :lmao: :lol: :bigrinnin: