https://www.posetteforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1683
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Tormie
Sunday, 02 October 2005, 10:23 PM

The album
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Hello friends.

This is the chronicles of what happened today:

I received a complain for a vonfranck's picture and went to see it. The pictures was made of real naked people showing genitals. I deleted two of these pictures and sent this PM to vonfranck:



[i]Hi Vonfranck. 

I've recently received some complains for your pictures, my fault that I was not too much on the album and have to do this thing only now. I had to delete them because they are too much for our site. I'm not against extreme nude pictures but it's not the target of our site which is "PG 13". This means essentially, no real man/woman nude character, no showing of genitals (it means no showing of male genitals, the female genitals are inner). I really know that it will offend you but I had no other chance my friend. I could open a "restricted" section on Posetteforever for this kind of pictures, but I don't want to do it because, as I said those pictures are not the target of this site. 
I want to give you my deep excuses vonfranck, I really hate to play the part of the censor but as the webmaster I have to it... 

I'll write a public post explaining better what can be done and what can't be done. 

I'm very sorry...[/i]

Then I wrote a message explaining publicly the reasons why (you can read it in the news), this caused the reactions of the new guys, they deleted all their pictures and left Posetteforever :sad:

Now, it's sad, very sad and maybe I've done something wrong.
So I decided not to take those decisions alone anymore and to discuss them with you before.

I've deleted the pictures and I can't show them to you, I hope you you watched them and remember, in any case I want to create with you the general rules of the album.

Actually my main doubt is in which form we can allow the showing of genitals?

I thought that showing the men's genital should be prohibited because they are outside of the body, so it means that also the women's genital are prohibited because they are inside the body, but Anouk reacted at it and so I wrote no genitals at all...

I wrote, no real people naked... what about it ?

What about children ?

Please help me friends, I'm in trouble now.... :crybaby:


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Visitor
Monday, 03 October 2005, 03:00 AM


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I have just caught up to what has been happening today.  In my opinion you did nothing wrong, you were just enforcing the rules that all members have agreed to follow.  I am sorry that I have not been keeping up with the album pictures that have been posted.  So, I didn't see the picture or else we could have dealt with it sooner, but knowing of picture that we did take action on and what has been described in the forums about this one, I can imagine enough about it.

By the way, I think that vonfranck lied about the image in one of his statements about it in the forums when he said:  [quote]All "Real People" - as you say - were created in the Poser Head Room.[/quote]  That could account for the faces but what about the rest of the body?  It sounds like additional efforts were made by him than what he said, or it was maybe not even a Poser rendering?  His statement that implies that just because Poser provides the head room, be is blameless, is not valid.  Poser provides the tools, but it is the responsibility of the artist as to how he uses those tools.

I will write more about this soon.

Let's not permit this event to ruin the Halloween exhibition, I will still create the gallery for it  Monday, my timezone.  Let's not spoil eveyone's fun because of how that group of new members reacted.

By the way, another new member, posfan, is not one of them.

Pangor


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tda42
Monday, 03 October 2005, 03:30 AM


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Ok by giving this careful thought we have to look at this as a whole. Seeing how this is a 
site that can be accessed anywhere in the world it should have rules. It's not like you are calling a porn hotline and paying for the service of hearing all the garb. Another thing is the respect of other countries that see nude as either art or porn. Number one rule in no way what so ever a child should or will be put in a sexual theme or manner. A person under the age of 16 should not be aloud to post nudity. Other countries should be brought in this as the site itself is look at threw various countries. So with that a 16 and under should not be using nudity in any form seeing how it can get the site into hot water. Moving on to the next level. The poser is created in man and womens image. There for we assume it to be of use in likeness of ourselves. So Poser is a tool to make Porn as well as all the good things. We should handle this with extreme caution. To say no to an artist with a show of sexual nature should as follows. 1 Any kind of sex act. 2 Genital nudity. 3 Breast of female maybe used as the male has a role with his chest also. 4 If it is of statue art on a pedistal then it maybe used if it is with no sexual act of itself. 5 If it is of no skin texture and of metal or gold nature then maybe excepted. 6 No shadow of sexual or reflection of sexual conduct. The person must read and sign that he or she understands that this is a free site and children do see this site now and then. If it comes to this then we may have to put a nudity note where the pictures thunbnail is and that it can't be accessed without permission of e-mail verifying that they are of age or that they are at risk of such nature and the art might offend which is their responsiblity. Which will leave the site free from all this and if a complaint comes, it will be there fault for not reading the thumbnail that there was a nude or violent content in the picture they have veiwed. All this could be complex, but maybe the only and easiest way would be adding a check box to say if it has nudity or violance and automaticly will post a thumbnail to tell of that nature. If it is of violence or nudity then let the Mods have there way with them if it falls to harsh under the rules. Let them know that their art is good but it is not the kind of theme this site supports and advise them nicely to post it on another site or tone it down a bit. If it is of child nature and it is obvious of the entent then band them from the site. I hope this in some way helps or gives an idea to help.  :)


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Tormie
Monday, 03 October 2005, 09:22 AM


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Thank you very much pangor, Kenny and all of you friends who have spoken with me in a private mail. 

First: about the halloween exhibition I've prepared a basic annuncement about it, you can obviously add things and I'll modify the message. Pangor will provide the gallery for it and as I wrote there it's the right occasion to have and share some fun. 

I agree with all has been wrote here as rules friends, they are basically rules made honestly and with what I call "common sense" (I don't know if has a sense in english...lol  :oops: ). So we can do a thing like this: A week from now, till the next monday, to keep this topic opened and discuss about the rules. In the meanwhile, here or on a separate topic we should write these rules in plain text (you know I use to make [b]very big messes[/b] with english so I think the right person for doing it should be pangor, if he...ehm.. volunteers  :whistle: ) and make changes to this list in this week. Once approved I'll add them to the general rules [b]and[/b] in the upload page.

Some words about the software used for the album. It's a good software and I basically modified the original one but I'm not able to add features like watch or not watch violent pictures or avoid the automatic thumbnails creator, this is because I'm not a coder  :oops: ... I could only make some tricks, for example create a group of "adult" who have access to certains galleries and a group of "non adult" who can't but it will become a mess  :doh: , so the rule I suggest is to flag the picture in the title if it contains violence or controversial matters, in any case it should fit the general rules for the album.

About what happened with the "fractal guys" group. Me and pangor have analyzed the ip address they are using and it is and it has been the same for all of them, which is a very strange thing  :mmmh: . It should mean that they are all using the same proxy server or the same PC, or at least, they are the same person, even if this hypotesis is very difficult to be thought as real... But maybe there is something strange  :mmmh: ...
Reading the post of vonfranck, who called me fascist, Thilda nazist and promised reactions, I "closed the frontiers" of posetteforever for a while. Nothing strange but only registered users can see the content of the site (guests have only Merlin and a banner inviting them to register) and new members will need the approvation of an admin to have their account activated. I'll activate only the account whom email services provider will be not a provider of free email services, like yahoo or msn but I will require a real ISP email provider. This should be only temporary because I don't want problems from those guys against the site.

Thank you for your help and your precious support friends :hug:


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JanReinar
Monday, 03 October 2005, 10:52 AM


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I made a little mess and my post was gone!  :oops: 

It is  my falt but my opinion is basically the same of Kenny and I always will support you!   :thumb: :hug:


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JanReinar
Monday, 03 October 2005, 11:02 AM


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I belive that the "Fractal People" are all the same guy and not a group. Many people use this trick here in Brazil (it is called "Borg Collective"). I don't remember to saw more than one online in the same time  and they reacted very fast and too over for a so large group. Some people in a group of that size only know what is happened today!


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JanReinar
Monday, 03 October 2005, 05:13 PM


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One... Two... Three... Testing!  :mmmh:


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Tormie
Monday, 03 October 2005, 06:33 PM


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We're puzzled about it  :mmmh:  :mmmh: ... Later I'll post the log of the album...


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tda42
Monday, 03 October 2005, 07:34 PM


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But it could be some friends all together in ones house. Visiting and posting what the main person has let them do on his or her software. There is multiple personalities here with Avatars. Maybe some youth involved and are making jokes of the art to see what we have to say about it. I don't know. It all sounds to strange to just have one person with Poser related art and then have Fractal related art of others leave the site without them being connected in some sort. Might want to talk with Landman about this and see what he can come up with. :)


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Visitor
Monday, 03 October 2005, 07:54 PM


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Most of their activity was about the same time of the day, but they were supposed to be spread out all around the Earth.  I also have not seen more than one on-line at the same time.  What ever the situation, it is strange.


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Tormie
Monday, 03 October 2005, 08:08 PM


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I thought of a school, but their ip is not the same all the time and comes from different parts of the world  :mmmh: . It's a real mystery friends ! John got the point, they reacted too much fast, for example when I said that vonfranck hadn't already watched the PM he was here in seconds and wrote his message in seconds, like if he cut and pasted it...

They removed the pictures from the gallery sequentially, no more than one of them was here at the same time, but I saw in the log a guest with their ip on the site during all the operations. Here is the log of the album, you can see that there is only Guiltypleasures in the sequence they never interferred and done the work one after another. if he/she is really only one person it should be a very, very strange individual  :roll:  :roll:  :roll: ... Tormie is scared  :uuh: 


vonfranck 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:32 pm Deleted photo: The_Doomed_Ocean_Liner_2.jpg (The Doomed Ocean Liner) 
vonfranck 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:32 pm Deleted photo: The_Swiss_Fleet_at_Fantasy_Island.jpg (The Swiss Fleet at Fantasy Island) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:00 pm Deleted photo: Classic_Wheels_1.jpg (Classic Wheels Number One) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:00 pm Deleted photo: Classic_Wheels_2.jpg (Classic Wheels Number Two) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:00 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_One.jpg (Fractal Number One) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:00 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Two.jpg (Fractal Number Two) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 4:00 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Three.jpg (Fractal Number Three) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:59 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Four.jpg (Fractal Number Four) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:59 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Five.jpg (Fractal Number Five) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:59 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Six.jpg (Fractal Number Six) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:59 pm Deleted photo: Classic_Wheels_3.jpg (Classic Wheels Number Three) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:59 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Seven.jpg (Fractal Number Seven) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:58 pm Deleted photo: Classic_Wheels_4a.jpg (Classic Wheels Number Four) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:58 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Eight.jpg (Fractal Number Eight) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:58 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Nine_2.jpg (Fractal Number Nine) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:58 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Ten.jpg (Fractal Number Ten) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:58 pm Deleted photo: Terragen_Number_One.JPG (Terragen Number One) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:57 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Eleven.jpg (Fractal Number Eleven) 
Robert DeNiro 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 3:57 pm Deleted photo: Fractal_Number_Twelve.jpg (Fractal Number Twelve) 
Tormentor 87.0.142.79 October 2, 2005, 3:45 pm Modified Usergroups 
Tormentor 87.0.142.79 October 2, 2005, 3:44 pm Modified Usergroups 
Tormentor 87.0.142.79 October 2, 2005, 3:43 pm Refreshed Usergroups 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:28 pm Deleted photo: Robots.jpg (Robots) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:28 pm Deleted photo: Angels_Traveling_to_a_Convention.jpg (Angels Traveling to Choir Practice) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:28 pm Deleted photo: Teddy_Bear.jpg (Teddy Bear) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:28 pm Deleted photo: Lair.jpg (Lair) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:26 pm Deleted photo: Cathedrals_2.jpg (Cathedrals) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:26 pm Deleted photo: Creation.JPG (Creation) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:26 pm Deleted photo: El_Dorado.jpg (El Dorado) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:26 pm Deleted photo: scary_alien.JPG (Scary Alien) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:25 pm Deleted photo: Red_Sky_at_Night.jpg (Red Sky at Night) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:25 pm Deleted photo: Friend.jpg (Friend) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:24 pm Deleted photo: Moth.jpg (Moth) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:24 pm Deleted photo: Virus.jpg (Virus) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:23 pm Deleted photo: Stargate.jpg (Stargate) 
Meiguinha 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:23 pm Deleted photo: Ghostship.jpg (Ghostship) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:16 pm Deleted photo: Sato_Eiji.jpg (Sato Eiji) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:15 pm Deleted photo: Nabuo-kyo.jpg (Nabuo-kyo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:15 pm Deleted photo: Wakusei_no_Mashi-n.jpg (Wakusei no Mashi-n) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:15 pm Deleted photo: Mangekyo.jpg (Mangekyo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:14 pm Deleted photo: Hana_No_Buto.jpg (Hana No Buto) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:14 pm Deleted photo: Reisu.jpg (Reisu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:14 pm Deleted photo: Ozara.jpg (Ozara) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:14 pm Deleted photo: Kazaguruma.jpg (Kazaguruma) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:14 pm Deleted photo: Kijutsu.jpg (Kijutsu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:13 pm Deleted photo: Himawari.jpg (Himawari) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:13 pm Deleted photo: Sozo.jpg (Sozo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:13 pm Deleted photo: Fukurogumo.jpg (Fukurogumo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:13 pm Deleted photo: Ibutsu.jpg (Ibutsu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:12 pm Deleted photo: Tsunami.jpg (Tsunami) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:12 pm Deleted photo: Gento.jpg (Gento) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:12 pm Deleted photo: Yurei.jpg (Yurei) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:11 pm Deleted photo: Hoshi_No_Tanjo.jpg (Hoshi No Tanjo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:11 pm Deleted photo: Shiro_No_Yurei.jpg (Shiro No Yurei) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:11 pm Deleted photo: Koebi.jpg (Koebi) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:11 pm Deleted photo: Murasakiiro_No_Kaika.jpg (Murasakiiro No Kaika) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:11 pm Deleted photo: Makuwauri.jpg (Makuwauri) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:10 pm Deleted photo: Tamago.jpg (Tamago) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:10 pm Deleted photo: Yurei2.jpg (Yurei 2) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:10 pm Deleted photo: Shinseina.jpg (Shinseina) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:10 pm Deleted photo: Ginga.jpg (Ginga) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:09 pm Deleted photo: Nichibotsu.jpg (Nichibotsu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:09 pm Deleted photo: Birodo.jpg (Birodo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:09 pm Deleted photo: Yariika.jpg (Yariika) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:09 pm Deleted photo: Sanshikisumire.jpg (Sanshikisumire) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:08 pm Deleted photo: Seibo_Maria.jpg (Seibo Maria) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:08 pm Deleted photo: Amanokawa.jpg (Amanokawa) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:08 pm Deleted photo: Tate.jpg (Tate) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:08 pm Deleted photo: Kadoguchi.jpg (Kadoguchi) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:08 pm Deleted photo: Uni.jpg (Uni) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:07 pm Deleted photo: Kaiju.jpg (Kaiju) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:07 pm Deleted photo: Shirotsumegusa.jpg (Shirotsumegusa) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:07 pm Deleted photo: Hitokui_Oni.jpg (Hitokui Oni) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:07 pm Deleted photo: Kigen.jpg (Kigen) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:06 pm Deleted photo: Ensei.jpg (Ensei) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:06 pm Deleted photo: Sokutsu.jpg (Sokutsu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:06 pm Deleted photo: Meishin.jpg (Meishin) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:06 pm Deleted photo: Tonneru.jpg (Tonneru) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:05 pm Deleted photo: Ryudo.jpg (Ryudo) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:05 pm Deleted photo: Taishou.jpg (Taishou) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:05 pm Deleted photo: Sutendogurasu.jpg (Sutendogurasu) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:05 pm Deleted photo: Horagai.jpg (Horagai) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:04 pm Deleted photo: Hentekorin-kinjitou.JPG (Hentekorin-kinjitou) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:04 pm Deleted photo: Inazuma.jpg (Inazuma) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:04 pm Deleted photo: Kumo_No_Su.jpg (Kumo No Su) 
sakuma 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:03 pm Deleted photo: Yamato.jpg (Yamato) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 2:00 pm Deleted photo: Haunted_Island.jpg (Haunted Island) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:59 pm Deleted photo: sf1_copy.jpg (Midnight Watch) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:59 pm Deleted photo: Calm_Sea.jpg (Calm Sea) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:59 pm Deleted photo: Tropical_Reef.jpg (Tropical Reef) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:58 pm Deleted photo: Anchovies.jpg (Anchovies) 
The Captain 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:58 pm Deleted photo: Sea_Anemone.jpg (Sea Anemone) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:50 pm Deleted photo: 16.JPG (Foggy Morning) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:50 pm Deleted photo: Desert_Sunrise.JPG (Desert Sunrise) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:49 pm Deleted photo: moon2_copy.jpg (Alien Moon, Two) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:49 pm Deleted photo: Alien_Moon_One.JPG (Alien Moon, One) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:49 pm Deleted photo: Alien_World_Two.jpg (Alien World, Two) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:49 pm Deleted photo: Alien_World.jpeg (Alien World, One) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:48 pm Deleted photo: Cloudy_Day.JPG (Cloudy Day) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:48 pm Deleted photo: Mount_Sinai.JPG (Mount Sinai) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:48 pm Deleted photo: The_Weeping_Plain.jpg (The Weeping Plain) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:47 pm Deleted photo: The_Great_Wheel_Four.jpeg (The Great Wheel, Four) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:47 pm Deleted photo: The_Great_Wheel_Three.jpeg (The Great Wheel, Three) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:47 pm Deleted photo: Alien_Vista.jpeg (The Great Wheel, One) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:47 pm Deleted photo: The_Great_Wheel_Two.jpeg (The Great Wheel, Two) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:46 pm Deleted photo: Aurora.jpg (Aurora) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:46 pm Deleted photo: 31.JPG (Desert Evening, One) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:46 pm Deleted photo: The_Great_Wheel_Five.jpeg (The Great Wheel, Five) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:46 pm Deleted photo: i.JPG (Desert Evening, Two) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:45 pm Deleted photo: fangrock.jpeg (The Fang) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:45 pm Deleted photo: Avalon_Hill.jpeg (Avalon Hill) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:45 pm Deleted photo: 33.jpg (Desert Evening, Three) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:44 pm Deleted photo: e_mountain_2.JPG (Winter Mountain, One) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:44 pm Deleted photo: e_mountain1.JPG (Winter Mountain, Two) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:44 pm Deleted photo: Contest2.JPG (Plains of Destiny) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:43 pm Deleted photo: Garden_of_Eden.jpg (Garden) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:43 pm Deleted photo: Bed_of_Flowers.jpg ("Where the wild thyme blows . . .") 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:43 pm Deleted photo: 6.JPG ("Let heaven kiss earth . . .") 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:43 pm Deleted photo: Stormy_Weather.jpg (Stormy Weather) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:42 pm Deleted photo: Star_Bright.jpg (Star Bright) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:42 pm Deleted photo: Fae_Sunset.jpg (Fae Sunset) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:42 pm Deleted photo: Diadem.jpg (Diadem) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:42 pm Deleted photo: Opera_House.jpg (Opera House) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:41 pm Deleted photo: Basilica.jpg (Basilica) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:41 pm Deleted photo: Phantasm.jpg (Phantasm) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:41 pm Deleted photo: EN1.JPG (Gloaming Nile) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:40 pm Deleted photo: Rohan.JPG (Rohan) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:40 pm Deleted photo: Shadow_Storm.JPG (Shadow Storm) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:40 pm Deleted photo: Mountain1.JPG (Mountain Pass) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:40 pm Deleted photo: Bouquet.jpg (Bouquet) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:39 pm Deleted photo: Shadowy_Peaks.JPG (Shadowy Peaks) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:39 pm Deleted photo: Maelstrom.jpg (Maelstrom) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:39 pm Deleted photo: Tangled_Skein.jpg (Tangled Skein) 
Christopher Lee 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:39 pm Deleted photo: Whirlpool.jpg (Whirlpool) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:33 pm Deleted photo: Juno_et_Jupiter_5.jpg (Juno et Jupiter) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:33 pm Deleted photo: Effraie_des_clochers2.jpg (Effraie des clochers) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:33 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_VII.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, VII) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:32 pm Deleted photo: Le_r_ve_du_von_D_niken.jpg (Le ràªve du von Dà¤niken) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:32 pm Deleted photo: La_fort_hante.jpg (La foràªt hantà©) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:32 pm Deleted photo: Heracles_et_Iolaus.jpg (Heracles et Iolaus) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:31 pm Deleted photo: Ganymede2.jpg (Ganymede) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:31 pm Deleted photo: Le_Diable.jpg (Le Diable) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:30 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_VI.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, VI) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:30 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_V.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, V) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:30 pm Deleted photo: David_et_Goliathe.jpg (David et Goliathe) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:29 pm Deleted photo: Alexandre_et_Hephaistion_copy.jpg (Alexandre et Hephaistion) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:29 pm Deleted photo: Le_Fant_me_de_l_op_ra.jpg (Le Fantà´me de l'opà©ra) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:29 pm Deleted photo: Angus_g_et_Nuada_copy.jpg (Angus à’g et Nuada, I) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:29 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandlebrot_II.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, II) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:28 pm Deleted photo: Angus_g_et_Nuada_II.jpg (Angus à’g et Nuada, II) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:28 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_I.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, I) 
guiltypleasures 66.191.23.201 October 2, 2005, 1:28 pm Deleted photo: Bad_Mojo.jpg (Bad Mojo (Nudity warning)) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:28 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_III.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, III) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:27 pm Deleted photo: Voyage_la_plan_te_de_Mandelbrot_IV.jpg (Voyage à  la planà¨te de Mandelbrot, IV) 
Anouk 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:27 pm Deleted photo: Selene.jpg (Selene) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:23 pm Deleted photo: Le_Vampire.jpg (Le Vampire) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:23 pm Deleted photo: La_lune_de_miel.jpg (La lune de miel) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:23 pm Deleted photo: Valle_alpestre.jpg (Valle alpestre) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:22 pm Deleted photo: Laffrontement.jpg (L'affrontement) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:22 pm Deleted photo: Romeo_et_Juliet.jpg (Romeo et Juliet) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:22 pm Deleted photo: Satan_reproch_par_Jsus.jpg (Satan reprochà© par Jà©sus) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:21 pm Deleted photo: Les_enfants_de_Diana.jpg (Les enfants de Diana) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:21 pm Deleted photo: La_convocation.jpg (La Convocation) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:20 pm Deleted photo: Le_Mage.jpeg (Le Mage) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:20 pm Deleted photo: Un_royaume_mystique.jpg (Un royaume mystique) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:20 pm Deleted photo: Montagne_des_brumes.jpg (Montagne des brumes) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:19 pm Deleted photo: Transgression_dans_la_terre_du_Pharoah.jpg (Transgression dans la terre du Pharoah) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:19 pm Deleted photo: Libert_.jpg (Libertà©) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:19 pm Deleted photo: Les_Bois_Colors.jpg (Les Bois Colors) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:18 pm Deleted photo: ss1.JPG (La gorge des ombres) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:18 pm Deleted photo: Cr_puscule_Poussi_reux.JPG (Crà©puscule Poussià©reux) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:18 pm Deleted photo: Lac_tyrolien.jpg (Lac tyrolien) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:17 pm Deleted photo: La_dissolution.jpg (La dissolution) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:16 pm Deleted photo: L_ge_des_r_ves.JPG (L'à¢ge des ràªves) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:16 pm Deleted photo: Royaume_t_n_breux.JPG (Royaume tà©nà©breux) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:15 pm Deleted photo: Minuit_orageux.JPG (Minuit orageux) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:15 pm Deleted photo: Belle_soir_e.jpg (Belle soirà©e) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:15 pm Deleted photo: Montagne_magique.JPG (Montagne magique) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:14 pm Deleted photo: Le_soleil_de_minuit.JPG (Le soleil de minuit) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:14 pm Deleted photo: Le_sanctuaire_des_brumes2.jpg (Le sanctuaire des brumes) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:13 pm Deleted photo: Purgatorio_Canto_III.JPG (Purgatorio, Canto III) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:12 pm Deleted photo: Purgatorio_Canto_IV.JPG (Purgatorio, Canto IV) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:12 pm Deleted photo: Purgatorio_Canto_V.JPG (Purgatorio, Canto V) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:11 pm Deleted photo: Purgatorio_Canto_VI.JPG (Purgatorio, Canto VI) 
ButchNormand 205.209.69.132 October 2, 2005, 1:11 pm Deleted photo: Purgatorio_Canto_VIII.jpg (Purgatorio, Canto VIII)


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TdaC
Monday, 03 October 2005, 09:28 PM


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Me -a nazi?You know if i cared, i would insulted. :lol:


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Tormie
Monday, 03 October 2005, 09:30 PM


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Sorry... But...  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao: !!!! :ROTFL:


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JanReinar
Monday, 03 October 2005, 11:15 PM


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Sorry about you Thilda but I think that if I was on line I would be called Getulist if he know something about Brazil!  :lmao: 

Looks like "they" are the same guy! 

I was thinking that was something wrong with Meiguinha since she commented on the Forum that she lived in Brazil. A true Brazilian or someone who lived here would told that "she or he is from... Name of the City... or she or he  lived in... Name of the City..." but never "I lived in Brazil" . I must had told to you all but I was afraid that it looks like a "racist thing" and it did cause problems for the site and to the others members!


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tda42
Monday, 03 October 2005, 11:27 PM


-----------------------------------
It sounds like The person has notified the others and may have taken it on him or herself to remove the pictures. This means the person is either a hacker on passwords or notified people of what had happen and they gave him the password to get in. I have noticed Gojira has not removed his work but has not been on line since the trouble started. As far as the IP address it is safe to say that person has removed the pictures. As for Nazi. That is being a bit damning to the soul. But on the point of nudity where do we draw the line. Davide you have had 2. One in the tub and the shadow on the wall. Mind you I am laughing my ass off when I remember that one. :lmao: JR has had naked top of shots. But it's Scifi and not from this earth and how do you manage to handle this when the artists is trying to get a vision accross. JR and Davide I am not pointing a finger at you so don't be offended by this but I am trying to get a point accross. Also what about the women. They have rights as well to say what they want and what they don't want. The world is sexual. We are beings of that nature. I think we need to rethink
just what we want to do. Maybe we need a place to put the nude in and a password for artist over the age of 16 or 18 not to see this or we are going to run into this again with this nudity thing again. One of the artist was 16. That is if this was a true person. If mothers and fathers seen this without some kind of locks in place we might have a problem with the site remaining open to new people or opened at all.. Another point to look at is Pangor mentioned that Davides English was broken and not fully defind. These are suppose to be artist of parts of the world. It shouldn't matter. They are not English. :mmmh: What I am saying is Davide's english translation should effect me, not a person from France or Germany. :mmmh: As far as what has happened, I think it shoud be business as usual. Open Posetteforever like we always do and egnore them. Build new rules for nudity as we go.  :thumb: As far as Posy goes. Well everybody has a trademark and this is a unique one.  :thumb: As for them. They didn't no a good thing until it was gone.  :)


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JanReinar
Monday, 03 October 2005, 11:43 PM


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:1st: I don't that knew I had stolen nudity  frist price from Kenneth (Deviant Viking)Kenny! Do you had count only the "Human Nudity" or gave me points for the "Non Human Nudity" too? And for God Sake how do you know that the aliens is not dressed?  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao: 

But I agree that the best is ignore them and stay on our  :thumb: path!

I promise that when the new rules are done Human and Aliens will follow them!  :lol:


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tda42
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 01:49 AM


-----------------------------------
I was pointing out what a person had said about a person getting into a tub with a posette. It in no way really means anything except the point vonfranck was getting accross about Davide and the tub. Then I look at this as a big thing between the works of art. Davide using himself as a model and I use this loosely because if it isn't Davide then we have got a new problem with Posy in the tub and vonfranck's art with other real people with Poser heads put on the bodies. We can not look at it as 100 percent fact it is none Poser because it is quite diffirent. I have never seen that style before and for some of it, it looks very good. As for the pictures that Davide had deleted. I don't think I have seen them. I had a piece of art as you may remember of the title called Goth 1:25 which was thrown out at R'osity. It was nude and in a somewhat torchered way. But I was trying to make a point and the rules over threw. I was mad but I had to obey the rules that had been set up at Renderosity. We have to look at the art for its intent. Maybe we need to have the person explain the art and then it will be desided if it should have it. Maybe before he or she uploads the art it should be in plain English along with some other languages that there is no nudity and they agree to the claus. Then if we remove it, then they can't say anything about it. :thumb: As for JR's Aliens not being dressed. One of them was not happy with thier contract and reported you to me. :wink:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:


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Ozymandias Jones
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 02:18 AM


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Bit late, but have followed the whole sorry saga!

Davide, you have always had my support in these matters. At the end of the day it's your site. And if anything, god forbid, should ever happen in a legal sense, it's your ass on the line. Anyone who thinks different needs to get real.

As I have said elsewhere in the forum, the internet is no longer a place of Anonymous 'nicks' doing whatever they want without repercussions. This is part of the wider community and is judged by its rules.

Something about our 'movie-star' namesake members never quite felt right. I had a suspicion that they may be the same person for some time, or at lease a group of trolls out for some fun... Just didn't smell right  :mmmh:


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Visitor
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 05:18 AM


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The reason that I tried to bring the source of names topic back to life, was in hopes that the others but mostly Christopher and then Robert to discuss the shource of their user names. The name Christopher Lee combined with an avatar of the actor was an immediate red flag for me.  However, at the time it seemded that it was possible that he was the actor, unlikely but possible.

Two prior sites that "these people" have been are Rendervisions and Renderosity.  I first encountered Gojira at Rendervisions a while ago in the form of his comments on my works uploaded there.  As I recall, he had some artwork posted there at the time.  He has removed all of them from that site.  I also located Anouk at that site, also just as empty.  At Renderosity they were there as a group, they formed a web of favorite artists lists.  Then they removed all their art from that site too.  Only one factal remains in one of heir galleries there, I think that one was lest behind by accident.  The reason I know that they had art works there is that they are in each others favorites lists, a far as I can tell, the Renderosity software does not permit you to add someone to your favorite artists list if that person has an empty gallery.

Pangor


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Visitor
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 07:13 AM


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Now on to the main topic, reworking or rewording  the album rules.

I accept the offer to volunteer.  ;-)

The first thing I would like to say about it, is that I like thing here just as they already are.  It already functions well for the community the we, the staff and the other long term regular members, have together with our webmaster have created.  For our family of friends there is no problem, let us not punish ourselves because of a few recient "trouble makers".

Tormie, please don't use the word "Censor" when talking about this issue.  It has a bad connotation that bad people can use to try to make us look like the bad guys.

It has been suggested to make changes to or replace the album software required  to provide nudity, or violence controls or to limit access to "restricted content".  Or to require nudity warnings in the titles of the pictures.  I don't think these are good idea for PF.  For nudity warnings to do any good, we will have to change from automatic thumbnails to thumbnails that we will have to upload.  Otherwise the nudity would already be visible in the thumbnail.  A second problem is that any restriction would require alteration to phpBB/IntegraMOD too, at least on the profile settings and "The Pic Of The Click!".

If some people come to depend on that feature to "protect" them from exposure to undesired content, what happens if there is a bug and the system fails to block all such content, there will another situation of angered people.  What iwe make an error an fail to flag one of our picture appropriatly or if a trouble maker were to upload picutres that violate the rules and includes that part in the thumbnail and does not flag the image?  Our album is the most flexible that I have yet seen anywhere and runs just as smoothly as it is feature rich.

An angered person could have a stronger case based on our failure to provide reasonable protection that the angered person could argue that he or she had a reason to expect.

A point of comparison, there was an incident at Tapestry of Dreams a few months ago that lead to the same sort of questions that we are now considering.  It was resolved by changing nothing other than: Blocking all access to the album by guest; changed the age limit for registering to 18 and over.  When other options were considered, each step lead to more and more complex solutions.  Simple solutions all lead to more stringent ones.  Otherwise, 

We as a result of the recent incidents we have removed all privliges for album access  by guests.  

(A detail from the incident at Tapestry of Dreams, IF ANYONE sees a new member named "DragonWizard" or something similar, it is time to panic and if he invites 40 to 50 of his friends, it IS time to run in the streets screaming.)

At FaerieTop the entry screen has this message "WARNING: Artistic Nudity Ahead!"

There is a simple to understand and concise set of rules at another site.  I have asked the webmaster of the site who is also the author of those rules for permission to use them as an example in our discussions here.

Pangor


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tda42
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 07:26 AM


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This is very interesting but the question remains. Was this site set up and where do we go from here. For when it all comes down to it I'm in full agreement with Ozzy. We can back Davide up but it is his site and it all falls down on him. Ok lets assume they or someone has been offended about an art that they see as no diffirent as some seen already here. Where do we draw the line. What safe measures do we make so it doesn't happen again? I for one welcome artist here but we where over welmed with Fractals instead of the norm. Poser and Bryce in background. That is what this site founded itself on. The bottom line is simple. You don't obey the rules you get hammered. I still think that there should be a page simple and brief that pops up in front of you everytime you start to upload stateing. Under no reason what so ever you put anything of Child Porn, Nudity that will offend anyone in anyway with out the permission of the web master posting it for you his or herself. If the web master is in doubt on how to approach the art then it is a vote by the Mods. If rejected then he or she has the full backup of the Mods to say no. If the offense continues then the artist will be asked in a nice manner that the material is not in the best interest of the site and recommend alternate sites to place it in. Should the artist become angry then at this time inform them of the rules they agreed too. Last of all ban them from the site. It won't be the first time and sad to say I guess it will not be the last. What do you all say about this. I think it is time to do something and make it work. I think it is time to unlock the door and turn on the porch light again.  :)


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Visitor
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 08:58 AM


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I agree with Ozy and Kenny, as I said, I like how things are here.  Now with this forum, we have a new tool to deal with such matters as problem picture in the album.

There is one thing missing.  I was thinking about approvals routines in the album.  I believe that approval and disapproval of pictures in not functional at this time.  Therefore I have added a new gallery named "Testing", with the description of "For testing of experimental features by the staff."

Both the name and the description are a cover for the real reason for that gallery.  Rather than "Testing" think of it as "Disapproved".  When a picture is seen by one of us, or we are responding to a complaint, rather than deleting the picture right away or leaving it visible to the general membership, (or visible to the general public via the guest account, assuming that we will be relaxing the recent tightning of permissions)  move that picture into the "Testing" gallery, once there we can discuss it and deal with it.  If it is accepted, the picture can be moved back to its original gallery, if it is determined that it need to be removed, it can be deleted from there once all discussions about it have ended and any appeals by the artist have been considered.

The reason for the name "Testing" is as to not alarm the more jumpy members like those that objected to this forum.  Therefore, we must not mention the real purpose of that gallery outside of this forum or via private messages between us.  

I have set permision for the Testing gallery so that it is accessible only by Admin, Aministrators and Moderators.  All other user classes have no permissions in that gallery.  I have not tested it yet, so do not consider it secure yet.  I am getting tired and may have overlooked something.

I will test it sometime tomarrow.

Pangor


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 09:30 AM


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For the "Borg group" I explain a little how the registration system works here: It's enough to use different mail addresses to register how many accounts you want, so you've simply to log out and login with the new account, the system don't watch the ip address. Is it possible to log in with the same ip address and two or more different accounts, like if me and my brother on a different PC but using the same internet connection want to login togetherer, it's possible (Posy  :heartbeat: logs in with me sometimes, we are logged in together ). Again, if someone disable cookies the program of the site, phpbb uses something called "session id" a long serie of number after the url address so that is also easier to change identity on the fly. The suspect for these guys to be the same person is due to some facts:
- The login from the same location because they use the same ip address [b]or[/b] they use the same proxy server
- They never login together, that is very strange, so they do things sequentially, like if it's the same person who login, then logout and login again with the same identity.
- The identities are too much "characterized", if they (?) would have choosen, for example, an italian, he would have spoken a sort of english-italian slang and have some "typical" behaviour.
The japanese guy "sakuma" is very strange because as long as I know japaneses know english very well, sakuma is a character in the movie "Gojira". Gojira was the first to create an account here and he is called "the big guy" from all of them.

In any case it changes nothing for what happened, it's only a thrilling and intriguing thing, a real mistery for halloween :lol:. If he/she is really only one person he made a great work... In any case he left some traces because probably he isn't very expert in internet things. If I would have done the same thing I would have used some proxys or anonymizers for the different identities in order to change the ip address and I would have logged in in the same moment with different accounts, from the same pc simply using a different browser (for example internet explorer and firefox).

The second matter about the album. Personally I'm not against nudity, it depends on how it is showed and the "style" we want for Posetteforever. If we want a larger target we can't permit "hard" or "explicit" pictures and real naked people.
About my pictures, the one in the tub doesn't show genitals and I represented myself with a Michael 2 who show the naked back. The woman is a victoria 2 and shows the breast, I added "me" on the picture made by someone else for a laugh, and it's not inteded as an erotic situation at all.
I substantially agree with you Kenny for the second one, it could be "too much"...
However, after we have decided clear rules (if it can be really possible) I'll remove also my pictures if they are out of the rules, no problem.

For the last passages of your post Kenny, I invite all of you to correct my broken english expecially when I write something like rules or descriptions for the forum or announcements. You can even edit the post directly, no problem.
And about erotic or perverted or violent or else pictures you're right, at last is a matter of reasonableness. Instead of directly delete the picture (as I've done  :oops: ) we could put it in an "unapproved" status, for example moving it to a special gallery where only the moderators have access and then decide here what to do. I think I can do it. the picture can also be approved before public showing but can't be "unapproved", to do it I have to manually edit the database and it's a mess.
About women's opinion, I'm just waiting  :whistle:  :whistle:  :whistle: Where are them ?


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 10:07 AM


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LOL, the funny thing is that pangor had the same idea about the album  :lol: and we wrote the message nearly together!

(maybe pangor and me are not really real  :uuh: )


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TdaC
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 10:58 AM


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well, i'm a woman - checks in mirror to make sure :lol:  and what do i think. Well i do have a naked dork with genital showing in the gallery. And 2 pics i think of an embrace with naked dork and posette. THe last 2 are meant as romantic and not erotic or porno.
I say no to photos of real ppls's genitals, naked kids or kids(3d or real) in erotic poses or with seethrough clothing, pornpix, 3dppl having sex with other 3dppl or animals or objects. THe reason for the no sex with animals is because i was surfing the net looking for new 3dsites and came across a site with that, without even warning ppl. I definently say no to that.


THe problem is that it's all subjective, the artist might see something else than the viewer/s do.... IT's all in the context of the image.


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:07 AM


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I must thought it before but I have a suspicion about the "Borg Group" what all of you need to know. Gojira... The monster...  A sweet girl... Another not so sweet... but relatives... The Captain... for God Sake don't remind someone to you? 

Our old friend Den Tracy!!! All this can be a joke! :doh:


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:30 AM


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I don't know  :mmmh: ... It could be but I don't know... I banned for a long time the ip address from the service provider of Den Tracy so he could connect here only via a proxy or an anonymizer but we've to check if those IPs belongs from a proxy. However I don't recognize the style of DT in those pictures  :mmmh:  :mmmh:  :mmmh: ... Hovere all is possible !


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TdaC
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:33 AM


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i don't either..there was a dtracy1 online earlier today.


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:35 AM


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no, is dtacy1 and I checked his email address, it seems "clean"


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TdaC
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:37 AM


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oki, i read it too fast. :whistle:


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 11:39 AM


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I and Andreas saw dtracy1 too! He is smart enough and have the time to find new style. That story of nazis and Her Tormentor reminds me a old PM from him and the Gojira avatar made the rest. At last I am a cop! I need to go to work!


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 12:08 PM


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:lol:
it's not dtracy1, it's dtacy1, he's clean because he has an email from www.tacy.org maybe he is his owner.

Actually I allow access only to people who can provide an email from an ISP or a domain name different from free email providers like yahoo, gmail, msn etc. I'm checking everyone, it's not so much a pain, only2 to 4 per day


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 12:21 PM


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:oops: All of us three was writing in the same time! dtacy1!  :oops: Speaking about being paranoid... :oops:


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 12:42 PM


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[quote="TdaC";p="25376"]well, i'm a woman - checks in mirror to make sure :lol:  and what do i think. Well i do have a naked dork with genital showing in the gallery. And 2 pics i think of an embrace with naked dork and posette. THe last 2 are meant as romantic and not erotic or porno.
I say no to photos of real ppls's genitals, naked kids or kids(3d or real) in erotic poses or with seethrough clothing, pornpix, 3dppl having sex with other 3dppl or animals or objects. THe reason for the no sex with animals is because i was surfing the net looking for new 3dsites and came across a site with that, without even warning ppl. I definently say no to that.


THe problem is that it's all subjective, the artist might see something else than the viewer/s do.... IT's all in the context of the image.[/quote]

Well... I am not a woman also checks... But I agree with Thilda the problem is not the nudity itself but the context of the image. I review her pics and some of mine and I can see nothing pornografic or erotic with them. Thilda's pics are so romantic that only a very sick person can called them pornografic her Dork frontal nudity my pics and Deviant Viking would be rated 14 years old pics in Brazil. A pratical problem is that I don't know a way to make rules for too subjective thing!

Here we rated movies and pics that way.

0-5 years - No nudity or violence

5-10 - Don't show frontal nudity or lower backside no blood.

10-13 - No genitals erotic poses and no gore or extreme blood.

14-18 - No sex or extrem erotic poses (someone touching the genitals) no gore

18 and up - Adult themes

The problem is that Brazil is a liberal society and something what looks harmless for me can be offensive for other cultures people eyes!  :mmmh:

For these questions I think that Pangor had a great idea with the Testing Gallery. It a good way to make a group consensus about a Pic or Photo!


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 02:43 PM

Re: The album
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In "Gojira" words "The names we choose for ourselves say alot about us - I think . . ."

Den Tracy avatar was a junior version of Godzilla! How I could be so dull!  ](*,)  ](*,)

Davide...

Did you banned Bonnie IP address too?

Today I lunch with a friend who is a Brazilian Federal Judge and we commented our "Borg Problem" and she spoke:

My suspicion about the "Borg Group" ID and all what I spoke about the avatars names characters etc are not a "Smoking Gun" but is enough to make her emits a order to check Den's PC if it was in Brazil and something illegal was happened. 

I also spoke to her about the pics and Album Rules and she told me that under Brazilian Laws VonFranck pics can be of "bad taste" but are not illegal but she is not permit them if she was the webmaster.


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tda42
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 05:11 PM


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I don't think it is Den. I had talked with him awhile back and he said that it was water under the bridge. Now I know some will say Yah Right. :doh: But you have to let go sometimes and I think it has. He has posted on Planit 3D and PoserPro. People still love him there which is a good thing. All of us got the best of both worlds there. Moving along with other matters here. I want to treat this as a one time thing. As for nudity I really don't have a problem for it. Even if you look deep into my saying and I quote "There is no wrong or right. It's just art." unquote. We have women here. TdaC,GP,Messenger and a few others not to mention as guest that come here to see the art. I am not trying to say that this falls under the rules with your work Davide. I'm simply saying where do we draw the line. :mmmh: Both of those pictures I laugh at till I had tears coming out of my eyes. If we took those out then I'm afraid there would go the personality of the artist and the fun. I think we have forgotton how to have fun like we used too. We are to worried about what people might think and we hide on our best behavour so know one will think of use as a bad person. When the new people came here we welcomed them and then it was almost like a take over. PF was slowly becomeing a place for them and their needs. Not what the site was for and that was for Posy and human as well as background modeling 3D site. We have to get back to the roots of this place. We don't need rules, just be ourselves. :) All of us until now have built our work of art without anyones complaint. Now here comes a new guy that will never be happy or has been thrown out of countless sites puts this kind of art as a test to us. What do we want to do? Make one happy or offend all the others till it makes this site shut down. :sad: I agree with Pangor. From now on a person joins to be a member let them know up front the rules. Make them check agree or diagree. Any pictures in violation get placed in the Test area. Mods get called on. They just check in a box yes or no. Know one knows for sure who voted yes or no to avoid disagreement between the Mods which makes this very fast to get the job done. :dance: So with that said I rest with this and I am going to the front porch and screw in another light, turn it on and welcome those who where looking for a place like we where back then.  :heartbeat:  :heartbeat:  :heartbeat:  :)


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JanReinar
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 05:40 PM


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Forgive Kenny!   :heartbeat: :pray: But English is not my prime language too. I never think in Den as a bad person only think in all of this mess as a "Hallowen Joke" made for him. As I post before the "Borg Group" did not do anything illegal!

I also agree with you about nudity and I don't think that Davide or any other in the Album pic need to be deleted.


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Tormie
Tuesday, 04 October 2005, 08:59 PM


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One word about Den Tracy. It wasn't him John, essentially because it's not his style. Even if his behaviour was bad with PF I still think that it's due to his temper and an attitude to violence hidden under the skin. I thought at him like Donald Duck, essentially a good man but he can become angry easily. At least he had not stability in his mind, but I really hope that things are changed for him in the meanwhile and that he has found the right group of fan elsewhere, In any case I think that nor him nor his wife will come here again, because of their pride.

Actually I find that the new procedure for the new members (I have to approve each one of them) works well. I check the email of the user and go to the domain. 
If it is a domain of a free email service I delete the account and send a message to the user saying that free email services are not allowed and that I deleted the account so that he/she can apply again. This procedure will discourage to create multiple accounts using different emails. I'll work at an alternative system in the weekend, I'll add the domains of the free email services to the ban list or I'll search for a suitable modification to the software that does it (I remember that it exists). However doing it manually is not such a pain for me  :liar:  :liar:  :liar: ...

For the album, Kenny's words are very wise and the special galelry made by pangor is the right solution for the future. I'll check but I'm pretty sure that also the moderators could move a picture from a gallery to another, if not I'll find a way, so that we can do what's necessary if one of us is online...

Some basic rules should be written anyway...


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 04:10 AM


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Funny, that we thought of the same idea about the hidden gallery at the same time. Thilda, I also saw dtacy and checked the profile, it does look clean to me too, without further checking.

I considered that maybe it could be Den or mizrael, I compared some details and could not get any solid proof of either person.

Pangor


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 05:31 AM


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I have asked Thorne for his permission to post the following here as a sample for our discussion.  He have given me the permission.  This is the full set of gallery rules that he wrote for FaerieWylde, and as I recall, with Thorne's Permission Gav used it at FaerieTop, before the hacker/cracker brought that site down.

[quote]
The rules for posting images here are simple and to the point, and apply to all subjects, regardless of apparent age. We do NOT want to censor your artistic freedom, but we DO want everyone to feel comfortable posting here:

1. No lewd display of genitals

2. No sexual contact; no sexual displays of any kind

3. No rape or torture of any creature, living or dead.

4. No nude photographs of minors or images apparently derived from nude photographs of minors

5. The end

We also ask that in consideration of others, you declare in the subject heading of your post if an image contains nudity. If you are uncertain whether your image is suitable for this forum, please contact an administrator for approval. We're pretty laid back here; just be nice, okay?
[/quote]


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 06:03 AM


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The shadow picture, well it is like an ink blot test what it shows depends on the viewer.  (My first thought was that it was a shadow of something he was holding, like a flashlight or a rolling pin.  It was not until some time latter when I starting thinking of what else it could be.  The bath tub picture is no problem for me.

I was unfamilar with Thilda's picture, so I located it in the album.  "The faun"  Once again no problem.  In the context of the overall work, it may be close to the line, but it has not crossed it.

Thinking back on Mizrael's picture that we had to act on, that one did cross the line.

Based on these i believe that we need to not concentrate so much on the content of the image as much as how [b]we interpret[/b] the context and intent of its composition.

Based on this and what has been said by all so for, I will post a first draft of a revision for everyone to consider.

Pangor


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 08:01 AM


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I looked into an IP address that the Gojira gang shared.  I can not say that they did anything illegal, but they did violate the AUP/TOS of the ISP that the address belongs to.

Pangor


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 08:19 AM


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What about underarm and pubic hair?  Is that an issue?


Should there be a modification to the rules about invalid usernames to prohibit usernames that sound like real people, the registering member can prove that is his name?  Or should such usernames be prohibited no matter what?

I am not talking about first names or last names for usernamesm or names of fictional characters.

I am thinking names like Christopher, Lee, Robert, CLee, El Cid, Zorro, Don Diego De La Vega are fine. While names like Christopher Lee, William Taylor, Bob Gilmore, etc are not acceptable.

Pangor


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Tormie
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 09:46 AM


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:mmmh:  :mmmh:  :mmmh: This rule about usernames can easily be avoided, I can say that my name is Robert de Niro but I'm not the actor... In any case the best thing is to stop for the future the new registration made using free email services, using a "classic" email from an isp means that the user could be easily targeted and he/she is discouraged from doing things like the "borg group" did.

I'm working on it, actually I activate the accounts manually, in the next future with an automatic procedure.


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JanReinar
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 01:48 PM


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[quote="pangor";p="25412"]I looked into an IP address that the Gojira gang shared.  I can not say that they did anything illegal, but they did violate the AUP/TOS of the ISP that the address belongs to.

Pangor[/quote]

Well because my work I know some Federal Judges and told our problems with Gojira gang to one of them. She told me that the only one who had broke Brazilian Law was "VonFranck" when "he" called Thilda Nazi. If "he" was a Brazilian or be on Brazil when wrote this have to prove that Thilda is a member of the Nazi Party of can be sentenced to pay her ten thousand Euros or go to jail for five months. Unhappyly for Thilda new computer this is not a International Law and we do not go to Interpol for "he".

"They don't cause any damage to the site solfware or used their multiple identity to get illicit profit like made a purchase on site shop with a card in name of "Robert De Niro". As I posted before VonFranck pics can be of "bad taste" but their are not illegal to Brazilian or International Laws!

But if they violate the AUP/TOS of the ISP we can warn the staff to them!


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JanReinar
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 01:56 PM


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[quote="Tormentor";p="25414"]:mmmh:  :mmmh:  :mmmh: This rule about usernames can easily be avoided, I can say that my name is Robert de Niro but I'm not the actor... In any case the best thing is to stop for the future the new registration made using free email services, using a "classic" email from an isp means that the user could be easily targeted and he/she is discouraged from doing things like the "borg group" did.

I'm working on it, actually I activate the accounts manually, in the next future with an automatic procedure.[/quote]

I have to agree. The best form to avoid more "Borgs" is forbid free email services the most of Brazilian Forums do it!


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JanReinar
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 02:53 PM


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[quote="pangor";p="25410"]The shadow picture, well it is like an ink blot test what it shows depends on the viewer.  (My first thought was that it was a shadow of something he was holding, like a flashlight or a rolling pin.  It was not until some time latter when I starting thinking of what else it could be.  The bath tub picture is no problem for me.

I was unfamilar with Thilda's picture, so I located it in the album.  "The faun"  Once again no problem.  In the context of the overall work, it may be close to the line, but it has not crossed it.

Thinking back on Mizrael's picture that we had to act on, that one did cross the line.

Based on these i believe that we need to not concentrate so much on the content of the image as much as how [b]we interpret[/b] the context and intent of its composition.

Based on this and what has been said by all so for, I will post a first draft of a revision for everyone to consider.

Pangor[/quote]

I agree with all of Pangor post one of two too pics had closed to the Mizrael's! However unhappyly I had to transfer the fist the first pic to the testing gallery. One of the mine!  :oops: Friends when I post it I was thinking that it was harmless and it was used to illustrated a free age Brazilian SF Magazine! My appologies if I upset someone and I will delete it with you think better.


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tda42
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 04:56 PM


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I would like to point out one thing about this. This is not to say to you my friend that you don't have money, but it goes out to people that really lac funds to pay for Poser clothes. So they post them nude to get a little bit of worth out of the software they bought or not understanding for the first time just how to put clothes on a Poser. In JRs picture it should be left up to the Mods and not the person who is the artist. Like for instance JR you made a picture like you have and you see now for the first time that it may not be right with the rules. Well look how long it has taken for someone to see it and it needs to be left up to the Mod to see if it is right for the gallery. Its like I have said, in other countries people react to art diffirent. Then people start by being to harsh on themselves when all along the rules where in place for them. If we get to carried away with rules of what has just happened, then people like Johnny will react to things like this and pull there work out left to right. There for It should be under the artists care when upload takes place. From that time after it should be the Mods worry. An artist should take pride in his or her work. Not worry about it. :)


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JanReinar
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 05:12 PM


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You are a good friend Kenny and also have a great brain and a larger heart!  :heartbeat:  :)

I never think on that picture as something wrong ou ugly. I always will have a pride of it as I have of all my works. I will not delete it from my HDs it and I am not thinking that I never had do it on that way. I am not angry with myself or judgegind my art. I was only thinking that I need to reminds it to all of you as Thilda made with hers.


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JanReinar
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 06:00 PM


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I know that we have a delicate point with the subjetive view of the art. It is more delicate when we are looking from the eyes of people who came from differents countries and cultures. It always be a difficult thing. But one of the reasons what I post my work here is know what people from others countries and cultures think about. And if a cross some line I want that you my friends  :heartbeat: tell me it!  :lol: 

Nothing is more follish or sick that thinking know what all Humanity have to think when are seeing our works. I belive that all of us are here on Earth to learn and I enjoy myself learning with you even in bad times!  :lol:


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Tormie
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 07:17 PM


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:heartbeat:  :heartbeat:  :heartbeat:  :)


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 08:42 PM


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There is so much great art in the album that I have yet to see.  This one is one of those that I have not seen before.  I see nothing wrong with it, it is a beautiful work of art.  That is why we have to be careful in how any rules are written, so as to not discourage good art like this.  I am tempted to move it back to the main album right now.

But I will leave the choice up to you.  Do you want to put this picutre up for a poll vote?  or would you rather withdraw the picture from consideration and move it back to the gallery were it was before?  My opinion is move it back.

There is a danger that given time we may start going too far.

Yesterday, I was reviewing some of my artworks (that have already been uploaded) to review how light setting affected some skin textures.  I noticed a small detail in one of them that I had not noticed before, (that is what got be wondering about pubic hair in images).  For a moment I was thinking that perhaps I should submit that picuture for review, then I took a short break.  When I came back to my computer the picutere was still on the screen.  I viewing the picture again with the eye twords beauty and not a technical analysis I was saw it for the beauty and joy that it presents and I remembered what was  in my mind when I created it and more important, what was NOT in my mind at that time.  That is when I realized how far we could go down a dark path.  Let us not permit, the loss of our vision for beauty and joy in our works be the, lasting legacy of the Gojira gang presence at Posetteforever.

Here is the picture that I was reviewing that I found the little detail in,

[img]http://www.posetteforever.com/data/1019/1255VirginaPS1_32_Dance_4-thumb.jpg[/img]
[url=http://www.posetteforever.com/showphoto.php?photo=2367]Virgina First Sitting Part 32 - Dance 4

Pangor


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Tormie
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 09:10 PM


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There's nothing wrong with that picture John ! The context is just very clean !

Friends, we are talking about perverted and/or doubtful meaning pictures ! The pictures that I've deleted showed genitals not because the context of the picture needed them but the genital themselves were the main "character" (hard to explain...). Being "hard" and shocking was the purpose for doing it, it was not like the penis of David (of Michelangelo of course, not mine  :oops:  :lmao: ) as "vonfranck" said. That penis was there because the model was a man, the sculpture was not based on schoking the people for the penis.

Actually I wasn't shocked and saw the picture only after a complain, but the close ups of the genitals and the real persons naked pushed me to delete the picture.

In the past I've done the same with one of Deviant Viking pic and he understood with no problems, a matter of how a person have a brain or not...

I think non of "our" pictures are made for shocking the viewer with nudity


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Visitor
Wednesday, 05 October 2005, 11:23 PM


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I have been trying to put that idea into words and you have done better than my attempts.  It so not so much the content of the image as the context in which that content is presented and that is what is hard to describe in any set of rules.  So I have written and discarded a couple of drafts and started over again.  The other hard part is how to expound on what is not acceptable without giving ideas to problem members to try to test or subvert.

When I go to a new site I lurk their gallery for a while to see my works are acceptable by both the written rules and existing artworks in the gallery.  If in doubt, even if I think the issue in question is silly, I will ask those in charge of the site or the gallery as appropriate.  I know that others do that too, what I can not understand is why people like Vonfranck and Mizrael insist on testing the limits and then become angy when the learn that they have crossed it.

Pangor


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JanReinar
Thursday, 06 October 2005, 12:15 AM


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I had time to saw lots of the album pic and none are like "VonFranck Grouchos" or "Mizreal Male Pole Dancers"! I transfered that pic to Testing Gallery none because it is the only one with nude children I can find! I agree that only a very sick person can see anything perverted in it!


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Tormie
Saturday, 22 October 2005, 11:34 PM


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Ok, actually I've deleted my "shadow on the wall" picture because it was too much on the edge...


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ahjah
Sunday, 23 October 2005, 01:57 AM


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:mmmh: ... these "scissors in brain" and other self censorship stuff scares me... :uuh:  :eh:  :sad:  :nono:


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Tormie
Sunday, 23 October 2005, 10:16 AM


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I understand what you mean Andreas, I put a "final" phrase on the front page for guests (I found it on another site) "We are a family web site so posting of adult style content is forbidden". We've tried to find the limit and because it has been told to me that probably that picture was out of the limit I removed it...  :mmmh: Maybe it should be better to leave the decision to the staff group even if it was a picture of mine  :mmmh: . I see if I can save it from the backup of the site...


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Tormie
Sunday, 23 October 2005, 10:35 AM


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Ok, I found and restored it on a backup, but I left out the thumbnail, however I move it to the testing gallery for your opinion, please...

(I found the situation half comic and half embarassing...lol)


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Visitor
Monday, 24 October 2005, 08:42 PM


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In keeping with how we were testing the handling of this sort of issue, I have started a new topic with a 7-day poll to register opinions about this picture.

Pangor


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Tormie
Monday, 24 October 2005, 08:45 PM


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Thank you pangor


