https://www.posetteforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1353
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The Mighty Zeus
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 12:38 PM

Grrr
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I just need to vent a bit, I hope no one minds. Let me explain. I have a friend whom is into digital art as well (but not really that far along) who has been snipping at my work constantly and it is really starting to irritate me.  It all started early on when I would show him my work and he would say "did you do that or did someone else?" (I so badly wanted to say "Of course I did it you jacka$$" but I guess I am too nice or something.) Now it seems that he has become the ulimate authority (until you see his work, which isn't bad but not really terrific) on Cinema 4D and demeans my work at every opportunity. I like the guy and feel as though I owe him alot, but I tell you I have even started avoiding talking to people on MSN to avoid his snippy comments. I am starting to loose my patience, which is not really a good thing. I think it is a bit out of jealousy that I am demonstrating an aptitude for it and spend a lot of time working with the program that he is making these comments, though I could be totally wrong about his intentions. 
Have any of you ever had this happen to you too?


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Tormie
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 01:37 PM


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Oh, yes, sometimes. I don't know what type of circuit are you using, I don't use MSN, only messenger and usenet (rarely) so I can't suggest something technical. 

However I found healty to ignore those people on the net if they are not real close friends and I say them clearly what I think about them, things like :"Thanks guy, I'm sorry but I can't stand you no more, so this is my route and that is your: they go in different directions...". If he's a strict friends simply don't show him your art and say him that you quitted  :whistle:


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Ozymandias Jones
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 01:45 PM


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That sounds very irritating. It takes the fun out of the art process.

I have a similar situation with my business partner. We have been friends for nearly twenty years and are very used to each other's quirks. He was an artist in his younger days, and attended art school for a couple of years. He is very good at sculpture and is a truly talented sketcher and painter.

He constantly denegrates my attempts on poser, I think from some traditional prejudice that many artists have against CGI and 3D art. He does a lot of his graphic design work on the PC, but only does his 'art' by hand.

I ignore him now and don't show him many pieces. He will find fault with poser art on the sites as well. So I just keep it to myself and to hell with his opinion.

I could probably learn a lot from his comments, if only he didn't deliver them dripping with such scorn.

Oh, well  :roll: 

I hope your friend realises what he is doing and corrects his ways. Until then, I hope you can endure.


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Visitor
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 02:29 PM


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The similar situation here. I think my classmates arranged with each other to criticate 3D art and 3D software no matter that haven't seen any 3D software and also giving me advices how exactly to become 3D artist. The most popular advice : " Get a diploma!"  :lol:  :lmao:  :lol:  :lmao:  Have somebody of you a diploma for 3D artist? Had you study Poser or Cinema 4D (great program btw  :) ) in school ? There is a girl from an other class whom father is a 3D artist (She was the only person, without counting you , to who I didn't have to explain what is a 3D artist  :) ) He's very talented and he don't have a diploma. And I'm not sure a serious company like Pixar for example will hire someone only because he/she has a diploma. The most irritating moment was when one of these classmates started to "teach" me what to do with my money (ok. my parent's money) and tried to talk me that I would never do anything if I don't go to private classes in a privite school. This was so so so ridiculous. First of all the prices for these classes are prohibitive , second they use old software ,and last why give money for something I can learn alone and why don't use the money to buy some 3D software. And this person had never worked with 3D software in her life  :roll:  ](*,)   Only because some teacher gave them an "A" they're thinking that they know everything in the world.  :x


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Landman
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 04:54 PM


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Find out his IP address and Kenny will DOS him.... :-k


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Tormie
Wednesday, 30 March 2005, 04:56 PM


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Ok, I'll bump at his ports too  :bigrinnin: !


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Visitor
Thursday, 31 March 2005, 12:11 AM

Re: Grrr
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You can have your wife turn him to a cow tormented by a biting gnat for a while, or you could have him provided with a meal every day had have it stolen by harpies.  That should fix him.  Or you could just fry him with a couple of lightning bolts.  ;-)

OK, enough with the greek god jokes already. ;-)

Very few of the people I know in my area know anything about my art.  Most would could not understand it.  So, I avoid the topic with most of them.  Such a one person who I know, is often quite chatty but hardly ever gets the details right.  A harmless detail can become a scandel when he repeats it.  A person such at him would not understand my art and I would hate to think of how he would describe it when talking to others, so I have not mentioned it to him.

At work and in school, I have been picked on like that too.  When all else fails, the best way that I have found to settle such a matter is for a Old West type showdown with whatever was the point of contention.  But it does not always work.  Some will come to reconize you ability compared to their own and stop the attacks.  Others will be embarassed by their failure to match you and will fade away or stop their attacks.  Yet others will just continue to pick and pick.

One thing you could try, if you can be assued of no cheating, is to set up a challenge with your friend.  Select one of what you consider you best works, that was one of the most complex in details and difficult to create.  Make certain that you have not dicusses anything about how you created it.  Without mentioning where you got the textures and models or how you created them and without mentioning which programs you used, challenge him to duplicate it.  At the same time, select what you consider his best work, and duplicate it and better it if you can.  His failure combined with our success may straighten him out.  If he continues to pick on you, you can counter him by citing his failure and your success.

Such methods have been handy for me in my school and work life.

Pangor


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Tormie
Thursday, 31 March 2005, 12:22 AM


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Lol, my coworkers simply can't understand my pics... I avoid to show my works to them. I think that there are not many people in my ou-the-net life who are able to undestand them... It's so sad ...


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Deviant_Viking
Thursday, 31 March 2005, 08:31 PM


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If people pick on your art, I believe they're simply either jealous, or they're pompous obnoxious snobs who think they're better than everybody else. Either way, they're not worth your time worrying about  [-X 

As for diplomas and schools, experience and good work/results speak more than any piece of paper. That's not to say that paper won't be handy somewhere, especially if you do good work too.
And private schools aren't to be underestimated (as long as they're good). Sure you can learn the stuff on your own, but I learnt more on two weeks at school than I'd done the entire time before it  O:) 

I'll gladly show off my work on art sites, but I don't really like showing it to friends (unless I became friends with someone via my art in some way). My family wouldn't understand most of my stuff anyway  :-k  or condone my smut  :bigrinnin:


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Visitor
Thursday, 31 March 2005, 11:25 PM


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There is one point there where I am lucky, my family is supportive of my works.

Pangor


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The Mighty Zeus
Friday, 01 April 2005, 05:05 AM


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Well, at first he was pretty supportive of my work, but as I put in more time and effort to improve he has pretty much stayed in the same zone, and I think that bothers him. The guy is basically a good person and we have been friends for years. I may just be a bit sensative about it, but I find it pretty aggrivating. 
In answer to your suggestion Pangor here is a compairison between our work(click on the thumbnail for a closer view). He is a very good artists (He has very good concepts and a progressive vision for his work) and I don't wish to take anything from him, but on the other hand I want the same consideration. 
[url=http://zeuspg.freeservers.com/images/vs.jpg][img]http://zeuspg.freeservers.com/images/thumb.jpg[/img]


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Poserkatz
Friday, 01 April 2005, 09:32 AM


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Everytime if someone means, he's the only true artist, he is the only one who can be creative, he's the only one to talk about art - you can believe, he's a moron.

If i am a writer and try to talk about writing with another writer, it's a wargame.
Also in almost other cases of art.

If you are good in your work - than they tell you, that it isn't good enough OR
they tell you, that there is another artists out there, who's a bit better than you OR
they telle you, that you are the greatest, they ever know (and than you should thinking
about: what does this guy want from me? My money? My knowledge?)

Never i believe in criticism of other artists - i believe in criticism of readers, of customers,
of people who take an eye on my work. Sure, often those people are not artists, sure, often
they don't have a "diploma" or professional knowledge, but they say, what they feel about
my works - that's important, and only that.

Beeing an artist is always strange, you are alone, you have your own mind - if you can share
it with other people, yeah, it's great - but it shouldn't be necessary.

So, go your way on! If i want to learn something while doeing my artworks, i study the masters,
i read books about "handworking", i discuss in forums and so on.
But never i will do this with a friend of mine, if he's an artist too - that would be a great mistake!

Just my 2 cents.


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Visitor
Friday, 01 April 2005, 09:58 AM


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His is a nice example an abstract.  It is a nice style to work in for creating attractive asthetic works, but it is also a safe style to work in for some who does not want his work measured against an quantifiable standard.
I have sometines dabbled in such works for relaxations or when testing out a new feature.  I am not trying to insult his work, but it reminds me of some things I made and scraped, while practicing with Byrce's multireplication function.

In my opinion his work does not hold a candle to yours and you are dealing with a case of pure jealous envy on his part.  While there is no absolute standards  to measure his work by, there are for yours.  You style of works are measured by the standard of how well they match with the appearance of the real world items that they represent.  And your work measured that way is not found wanting.  The only question I have for your sample picture is about the color of the light on the floor, the outside light is golden but the light on the floor looks more white, is there an inside light source that is not visible in the frame?  Other than that question, your sample is incredible.

Pangor


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The Mighty Zeus
Friday, 01 April 2005, 02:40 PM


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Actually the light set up on mine is just a temporary set up to work with while I am building the model. (I am not even finished with the piece yet. still building things into it. 8-[ ) I put up a temp light setting and a temp background (Thats what is making the sky golden) that gets changed as I progress through the piece. I will probibly build a much more detailed background for the final production stills.


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TdaC
Friday, 01 April 2005, 06:01 PM


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I haven't had this problem myself, but i think it sounds like your friend is a bit unsure of his own work and that why he feels the need to talk the way he does about yours. It might not be intentional....he might not be aware of that he's doing it or what effect his words has, then again he might be. Usually when people talk down about somthing/someone it's because they feel inferior or small them sleves and by putting someone else or their work down they feel bigger and more equal.


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Visitor
Friday, 01 April 2005, 07:21 PM


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Right, and forget my suggestion of "dueling artforms".  I had imagined that he was close enough to your style to almost give him a chance.  However, it appears that he has no more of a chance at matching your work than would a fellow with a water pistol have against a Death Star.

Since the lighting is a working set for the moment, then I can find nothing wrong with your sample at all.  It is incredible.

Pangor


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Visitor
Saturday, 02 April 2005, 01:14 AM


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Both the two pictures are great (love the windows from the first one :heartbeat:  :clap: ), but in diffrent styles and they can't be compared one to anoter.
 
Don't worry Tormentor my parents like your pics alot!  :bigrinnin:  :bigrinnin:  :bigrinnin:  Exspecially the latest Posy's portait. But they really don't like my pics , none of them. :roll: My classmates liked some of the older pics ,witch are considered "normal" . All of my exercise-books are full of paintings made during the ckasses full of "apocaliptical aestetics" , chains , blood and explosions  : :twisted:  : :twisted:  :crazy: (Some day I must turn this stuff into 3D pictures... :roll: Some day 8-[ ) It's very irritating when someone look with disguise at them and start criticize...or say : " You need a good psychiatrist! " :x


