https://www.posetteforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=861 ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Thursday, 24 June 2004, 09:18 PM Another Bonnie 3D character made by someone else ----------------------------------- Well friends, what do you think ? Today at PoserPros, I saw a post from an artist that had the name "Bonnie" in it. It was a product to be launched at DAZ and possibly other sites as well. The character was called "Bonnie" for V3 I asked that the name be changed because the 3D character name "Bonnie" is used by me and people identify "Bonnie" with me as the artist. The reply was "Sorry...we searched the stores and the name was not used and we are not going to change it." A friend of mine replied that it should be out of courtesy not to use a name of a character that is seen all over the net on different Poser sites. The reply was that the launch of the package would cost more money and be delayed. My friend also told me in a PM to let it go and that the rival "Bonnie" would be forgotten in a few months. I replied to the author that the concept and idea of a 3D character called "Bonnie" was my idea and character, not theirs. The image and thread were removed by the admins over there. I have asked DAZ to delay the product launch until another name could be found. Oh yeah, one of the two artists on the "Bonnie" project said that she never, ever heard of my Bonnie character. It proves that people only look at what their small circle of clique friends produce and IGNORE EVERYONE ELSE. I didn't want a fight on my hands. All I asked for was a name change. What's mine is mine. Opinions anyone ? ----------------------------------- Tormie Thursday, 24 June 2004, 09:55 PM ----------------------------------- I hope that all will go fine for you and your Bonnie Den. I think that the authors of that character are sincere about her, Bonnie is a common name and I think that they haven't stolen it... Anyway, if it hurts you you'll have our support... If someone would use "Posy" for a commercial product I would laugh about it, Posy :heartbeat: is Posy :heartbeat: :heartbeat: :heartbeat: ... In any case "that" Bonnie can't be confused with your Bonnie, no way (the V3 Bonnie has a cup A or B maximum :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: ) ----------------------------------- Landman Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:04 PM ----------------------------------- I'm thinking you were in the right Den, although I don't really know much about it. But you do have alot of proof that you have been using Bonnie for much longer then their release of theirs. I would almost think of it as a copyright infringment.... :-k I dunno. I still stand behind what I said, "you are in the right" :-s ----------------------------------- tda42 Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:04 PM ----------------------------------- This is the reason if you are going to post a picture Den and you have future plains with the character you simply do not remove it. [-X IT is like a copy right law in the music industry.You make lyrics and music charts.Put them in an envelope.Take it to the post master.He stamps and dates it and returns it to you.Never to be opened the date on the stamp is your copyright of your work.A poor mans way of doing it but effective.With you how ever you make a cd of your work put it an envelope and do the same.Also leaving your work out on sites have the date you made it.It also states a right to your claim that it's yours. :bigrinnin: Also proof that they have a legal problem with your work vs theirs.I agree it is screwed up and I would fight for what is yours. ](*,) ----------------------------------- Tormie Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:13 PM ----------------------------------- ... In any case Den, You've our full support, we're a true group of Bonnie fans and we can post our opinion everywhere, if that characters will be on sale and you don't want, they will hear our voice in the forums... We'll help you ! :protest: :protest: :protest: :protest: ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:17 PM ----------------------------------- Saw the post on PP (which now seems to have disappeared, surprise). I agree that they should change the name out of courtsey (and the part of one of the artist not even being familiar with Bonnie was either a blatant lie, or it tells a little about the artists anyway..) But appart from that, I'm afraid they're right. Unethical and just 'not nice', but I don't really think you can stop them if they go through with it. Appart from it being a poser character, and named Bonnie, there isn't really anything in common with yours and theirs figure. And believe me, I've for various reasons started to look closer at ways to call people on their frauds and ways around stuff (special thanks to my landlords for that), but I think your case against them would hang in a thin thread at best. It started to look like the incident with that manipulated photo I did. Thinking back on it, I don't think any of the solutions was a particulary good one. I made the pic without her concsent, but she overreacted way much. I got pissed and let it fuck up for me, so I decided to try and save the rest of my face and just removed the damn thing as she wanted. Didn't make me look to good at the time, but not her either. Looks pretty much the same with this one. If they change the name, you'll come off as a zealous artist over-protecting his work. They release the figure under the name Bonnie, they come off as pissing on their fellow artists and ignoring their work. It's a lose-lose situation, but imho I think it'd be best if you just let them use the name. That way, at least you'll come out as the more gracious of you guys. Some guy had blatantly used one of my Najove poritraits for some 2D pic, and claimed it was based on some poser work of his (which he later said was an attempt at doing my Najove, so he was still copying her). I really wanted to just say what it was, which is a blatant ripoff.. instead I commented it looked nice, and said it reminded me of some of my work. Didn't like it, but I'd just come off as the asshole if I complained. Probably looks like I'm against you, but I'm not. Just my opinion and what I think would be best to do in this situation, which just sucks ----------------------------------- Don Vito Corleone Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:18 PM ----------------------------------- I can help you, [i]Picciotto[/i]... Only ask and they will sleep with fishes soon... ----------------------------------- Tormie Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:30 PM ----------------------------------- ... 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ :-k :-k :-k Speaking of laws, I think that Den could be right: He named "Bonnie" a poser character and someone else called a poser character with the same name: is like if someone called a car with the name of another car... If I was the author of the new "Bonnie" I changed the name, no problem, there are a lot of names to choose if there is a problem with a particular one, even if I think that they used it unintentionally, that Bonnie can't be an imitation of your... ----------------------------------- Tormie Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:32 PM ----------------------------------- P.S. I don't understand why they erased the thread at Poserpros, it shouldn't be their politics and it sounds very strange to me... But I'm away from their forum since more than an year and things could be changed... :-k :-k :-k ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Thursday, 24 June 2004, 10:39 PM ----------------------------------- 'Bonnie' is just a name though. There are tons of people with the same names. If the Bonnie character they're making resembled Den's Bonnie to a great extent, then of course they should pull it, but there isnt any similairties between them except being poser figures. As for the missing thread, it's possible the author decided to delete the pic, taking the thread with it ----------------------------------- Tormie Thursday, 24 June 2004, 11:07 PM ----------------------------------- :-k :-k :-k I searched the gallery and ther is a "Bonnie" picture dated 21th June... ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Thursday, 24 June 2004, 11:15 PM ----------------------------------- Bonnie is a common name, but there is only one genuine Bonnie 3D Poser character, MINE... I never asked for the thread to be erased. Either the admins did it or the poster of the image did it. There's plenty of other names to choose from. My character has a personality all her own and I don't want to see ads with a prissy looking Poser Barbie doll. Over zealous ? Me ? No, just protecting my own creation, that's all. They can go ahead if they like, but the won't get much respect from other artists. If they do, then the artists who purchase the product have no integrity as far as I'm concerned. How do you think DAZ would react if I made a new mesh model and called her Victoria or Stephanie and started selling it. They would shit their pants and do everything in their power to stop me. I'm not mad about it, but I think it shows that some people in the Poser world have little respect or care for their fellow artists. Since the concept and idea of a 3D character named "Bonnie" was mine, it is by law, my intellectual property. I thought of it first and it is well known in Poser communities. It's the same as Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck being created by Walt Disney. ...or Bugs Bunny and the Roadrunner, by their respective artists. Shrek, Woody, Buzz Lightyear and other 3D characters were created by someone and it is their property. ----------------------------------- Landman Friday, 25 June 2004, 12:08 AM ----------------------------------- [quote="Den Tracy";p="10747"]It's the same as Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck being created by Walt Disney. ...or Bugs Bunny and the Roadrunner, by their respective artists. Shrek, Woody, Buzz Lightyear and other 3D characters were created by someone and it is their property.[/quote] :thumbleft: Point well made!! ----------------------------------- Ozymandias Jones Friday, 25 June 2004, 12:55 AM ----------------------------------- Den, In my opinion you have a moral, maybe even legal right to be pissed off. For an atrist at any level intelectual property theft is an important issue. In a perfect world we would all fight for each other tooth and nail to protect artist rights. Unfortunately in the real world we seem to operate under the 'might is right' credo. The fact that there is a considerable financial backer to the product with, I would imagine, an experienced (aggressive :-# ) legal team on their side will make them confident enough to carry on regardless. Ethically I believe they should change the name of the product, they are a leader in the 3D and Poser community and should set a high standard in this type of case. But... Den, I would go on posting your Bonnie & Co. images and let it all blow over, if I were you. Those who purchase the product are more than likely not 'fans' of your 'toons and characters. They will tire of playing with the character after a few weeks and move on to the next DAZ/Renderosity/PPros/RDNA release. It is unfortunate, but without a major kerfuffle, unpreventable. It's up to you how far you want to take it. A formal letter from a solicitor/lawyer to DAZ requesting them to C&D might have some effect, but you could be opening a can of worms with more legal tangles than you need ](*,) Keep us informed, mate. But don't loose sleep over it. ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 01:13 AM ----------------------------------- I won't lose any sleep over it. I simply will have little use for the two "artists" who went through with it and anyone who buys it, should it be released as Bonnie. If it should come out, be prepared for the "real" 3D Bonnie to get a hold of the rival and beat the daylights out of her in some renders. Fair is fair in wartime... :bigrinnin: Besides, the rival looks like she couldn't fight her way out of a Rodeo Drive boutique in Beverly Hills, even if she were two feet away from the door and the door partially open. :bigrinnin: The rival is just another zombie Poser character with no personality. It will be nothing more than a dressup doll. I believe the whole episode shows a lack of courtesy towards another Poser artist. ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 25 June 2004, 07:15 AM ----------------------------------- [quote="Den Tracy";p="10752"] If it should come out, be prepared for the "real" 3D Bonnie to get a hold of the rival and beat the daylights out of her in some renders. Fair is fair in wartime... :bigrinnin:[/quote] :lol: ----------------------------------- TdaC Friday, 25 June 2004, 12:25 PM ----------------------------------- Den i think you should know that there's a thread about Your bonnie and their bonnie over at renderosity, in the copyrights forum. It's called: Can a Name be concidered Intellectual Property? ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 01:22 PM ----------------------------------- Here is a little story. I saw the thread and responded to it. Those people over there are just too dense to figure out that it is the concept and idea of a unique 3D character with a personality and identity is the intellectual property. Their version won't sell anyway and will disappear into the abyss of obscurity with all the other characters quicker than they could market it. It's just another bloated lipped zombie, void of personality. ----------------------------------- Landman Friday, 25 June 2004, 03:53 PM ----------------------------------- I wonder, just for shits and giggles, what would happen to their sales, if you offered your Bonnie for free? It's probably not a good idea, however, I bet it would hurt them..... :-k ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 04:49 PM ----------------------------------- Nobody will ever have access to my Connie and Bonnie characters other than myself. The last thing that I want to see is my characters at Renderotica or in the hands of morons ! :bigrinnin: Bonnie may be copied or immitated, but will never, ever come close to the 3D character that I created two years ago. The other one is simply a little dress-up dolly. There's only one 3D character named Bonnie as far as I'm concerned and you all know which one that is. I doubt that I can stop them from launching their product, but you never know. If and when it appears, it shows that there is absolutely no respect for another artist and that no code of ethics followed either. I'll bide my time and see what happens. ----------------------------------- Tormie Friday, 25 June 2004, 09:40 PM ----------------------------------- I wrote something in the Renderosity thread, WOOOH!!! TWOOOT!! TWOOOOOOT!!! The war has begun! :werecomingforyou: :leftfighter2: :rightfighter7: :leftfighter2: :rightfighter4: :wickedfart: :badairday: :fart: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: ----------------------------------- Tormie Friday, 25 June 2004, 09:41 PM ----------------------------------- P.S. the thread is here : http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12395&Form.ShowMessage=1828101 ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 09:59 PM ----------------------------------- Well, you told it like it is, but it will fall on deaf ears. You are right, their creation, if it can be called that has the personality of a dishrag....wait...it has no personality at all. A skilled artist must provide that for his or her characters. None will be forthcoming in that department any time soon. :bigrinnin: The character will appear in renders as nothing more than a brain dead zombie Poser doll... Wait... I may be giving them far too much credit. :-k :-k :-k Only people lacking artistic talent will rush out to buy whatever it can be classified as and put up their renders and wait for their friends to tell them how wonderful it is with this person's shoes, that person's texture and someone else's poses. How utterly pathetic is that. Thanks Kenny, Tormentor and Sean Martin for the support ! ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:27 PM ----------------------------------- Well spoken words by that trio ----------------------------------- tda42 Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:28 PM ----------------------------------- Hey no problem Den! I got my Tank loaded. :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:30 PM ----------------------------------- Hey, their Bonnie for V3 Teen is already reduced from $12.95 down to $9.07 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: On sale already ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:33 PM ----------------------------------- I hope you know I'm on your side Den and think it's just unethical, even though I'm afraid they'd win if you stepped into the ring with them 8-[ ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:33 PM ----------------------------------- Ken, you look like Deviant Teddybear, not a Deviant Viking... :lmao: Am I missing something in the avatar? Are you projecting holograms or just messin' with my head ? ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:35 PM ----------------------------------- What can I say, I got tired of all the viking avatard long ago. Besides, chicks dig the bear :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- TdaC Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:40 PM ----------------------------------- We're all here for you Den:) ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:44 PM ----------------------------------- Thanks ladies and gentlemen. After the ashes settle, there will be only one Bonnie left standing, mine... :bigrinnin: Now, I must humiliate the rival Bonnie in an image. It is my constitutional right as a Canadian citizen to defend my creation... I will post it when completed at Renderosity, PoserPros and anywhere I feel like posting... (Ooooo, I can be be a bad boy :lol: ) ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:46 PM ----------------------------------- [-X :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- TdaC Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:46 PM ----------------------------------- :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- tda42 Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:49 PM ----------------------------------- [quote="Deviant_Viking";p="10780"]What can I say, I got tired of all the viking avatard long ago. Besides, chicks dig the bear :bigrinnin:[/quote] Thats funny Ken! :lmao: :lmao: ----------------------------------- tda42 Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:52 PM ----------------------------------- [quote="Den Tracy";p="10782"]Thanks ladies and gentlemen. After the ashes settle, there will be only one Bonnie left standing, mine... :bigrinnin: Now, I must humiliate the rival Bonnie in an image. It is my constitutional right as a Canadian citizen to defend my creation... I will post it when completed at Renderosity, PoserPros and anywhere I feel like posting... (Ooooo, I can be be a bad boy :lol: )[/quote] I'll get the camoflauge gear and night lights out.We leave at midnight. :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:08 AM ----------------------------------- On second thought, those two artist morons don't deserve anymore attention than they have already received. I'll bet you the next one they come out with is a "Connie". If it happens, then it was all planned and yet another insult. I have grown tired of the personal attacks, shitheads, legality spouting morons and people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. It may be time to kiss Poser good-bye. Thanks to everyone who commented and for your support. In my opinion, the only genuine artists are here on this site. We can take the free and forgotten characters and bring life to them. Take pride in being a non-mainstream artist. Give up the Bonnie thread replies, it won't change anything and only wastes your time. (Editted for typographical errors) ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:19 AM ----------------------------------- Den, I think that you're wrong in this behaviour. It SHOULD BE possible that those people don't know your characters, they make a totally different art. They said that they have found "Bonnie" using a search engine, it could be possible. I asked them to add "not to be confused with Den Tracy's Bonnie" in their Daz's page, and I think that they will try to do this. I think that this could be a very good solution and all could be ended with a handshake. I don't think and don't believe in a conspiration against you Den, but I could be stupid. ----------------------------------- tda42 Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:31 AM ----------------------------------- Den I think it is time for a personal Bonnie and Connie web site. No affence to Posetteforever but if you want a site with saying "no you can't".Then it would be this solution.Or at least I think it would.Any opinions? :-k ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:50 AM ----------------------------------- [quote="Den Tracy";p="10798"]In my opinion, the only genuine artists are here on this site. We can take the free and forgotten characters and bring life to them. Take pride in being a non-mainstream artist.[/quote] 8-[ *hides behind his V3* ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:55 AM ----------------------------------- [quote] *hides behind his V3* [/quote] ... Only a trick to see her ass closer... (Time to go bed DV, teens need 8 hours of sleep... :binky: :binky: :binky: ) ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Saturday, 26 June 2004, 02:00 AM ----------------------------------- I do not think there needs to be any further discussion of the topic. Tormentor and Kenny: I read your replies at Renderosity and I thank you for that. dolfinjtes doesn't look at anyone else's art, but ignorance is not a good excuse in the 3D world nowadays. She said that she was through with the thread at Renderosity hours ago, yet she is waiting for some sort of reply... from me perhaps ? :-({|= She is in for a lengthy wait if she expects me to reply to that thread. :bigrinnin: I have no intention of giving them the satisfaction of a reply. They do not exist as far as I am concerned. DanaanD claims to have followed my work, yet said nothing about the name or the possibility of a conflict. He is full of shit. I am growing tired of this topic and will not reply to it anymore. ----------------------------------- Deviant_Viking Saturday, 26 June 2004, 02:03 AM ----------------------------------- [quote="TORMENTOR";p="10804"] ... Only a trick to see her ass closer...[/quote] But of course... with that kind of ass, who wouldn't? [quote="TORMENTOR";p="10804"](Time to go bed DV, teens need 8 hours of sleep... :binky: :binky: :binky: )[/quote] And busdrivers need 12 to survive their passengers :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Bonnie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 02:55 AM ----------------------------------- Here is my 2 cents Canadian on this whole thing. Well I 've been sitting here beside Den for awhile and I can honestly say that I am not surprised about anything that I hear when it comes down to this art stuff. It was nice to see some of his friends rally around for support. I have to thank you for that. :heartbeat: It disturbs me to see that the wonderous creation is a teen character though and I would be disgusted and appalled if nude images of that character appeared. One thing that I am proud about is that Den stuck to his word about not posting any images of his main characters in the nude. You know which ones I am talking about. He liked to make people laugh and knew that somewhere there was someone who needed a bit of cheering up. I know that some of his pictures made people feel good because they told him so. Today, I told Den that with this latest episode with the lack of integrity and any ethical standards of conduct whatsoever, that it is time to walk away from this nonsense and get on with his life. There are other things to do in life and to keep at what he is doing for a few comments and views makes no sense to me. I too am tired of hearing about personal attacks for no apparant reason, other than jealousy or immaturity. There are people that are sincere and worthy of a face to face meeting. Most of them are here at this site. The others wouldn't get the time of day from me. ----------------------------------- TdaC Saturday, 26 June 2004, 08:24 AM ----------------------------------- I had hoped that this could be solved. Yesterday i sent an im to one of the creators of the teen character about the thread explaining the situation from a different perspective - Den's perspective. She said it was too late. Bonnie, i agree that Den has a rare gift of making people laugh and feel good with his art. I love the adventures of Connie and Bonnie and the others, and hope to see much more of his art. :) ----------------------------------- tda42 Saturday, 26 June 2004, 01:58 PM ----------------------------------- Hi Bonnie: First of all let me say that I am saddened by this.If I could be there to pat him on the back and say it will be alright I would.Believe me.I have stood by those characters to laugh and show my family what good humor was all about.Den made me laugh as many times as I could count.When I was down and sad he always built me up.The encouragement he showed to me was my reason for being here.I don't think anyone knew me as well as Den did in our talks.Always the first to say hi.Others have said a kind word to me and I thank them for that here.But we really did hit it off good.I have always thought of myself as not as good as I would like to be in the art world.Again Den was always there.How can people just rip your soul out and not even say thank you.Yes Den you made me laugh and you did it with grace and style.Den tonight give Bonnie and Connie a kiss on the cheak for me and tell them I love them.I just thought you needed to know this Den and Micky.Take care and god bless. ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Saturday, 26 June 2004, 02:57 PM ----------------------------------- Thanks Thilda and Kenny. It's all water under the bridge now. What is done, is done. There really has to be some sort of ethics. I have always played by the rules, in business and elsewhere. From the comments about never hearing about me, it proves that people only respond to posts made by favourite artists and don't even know that there are others out there. They don't look at the thumbnails and frankly, some are missing out. I don't have a favourites list, because everyone puts out a very good image from time to time. There are some who can do it with every image. I am not referring to myself. I can't have everyone on the list and to have someone's name not on the list means that you don't measure up to their standards. I will change Bonnie's name to Mic because it looks like the character is replying instead of a person and it's time for an avatar change anyway. ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 06:09 PM ----------------------------------- I saw dolfijntjes public excuses on renderosity so I don't understand what you are doing Den... I'm with you on the copyright/trademark argument, but I don't believe that it is a personal attack against you... :-k :-k :-k Tdac used sometimes "Posy" as the name of her Posettes, but I think that she doesn't know that "Posy" is the only name of Posy Posette :heartbeat: , so I never thought in a conspiracy against me... :-k :-k :-k Mmmm... Maybe I could ask for a sack full of swedish money :bigrinnin: :bigrinnin: :bigrinnin: !! ----------------------------------- Posy Saturday, 26 June 2004, 06:11 PM ----------------------------------- My full name is Posy Rosabella Posette :) ----------------------------------- Angela Saturday, 26 June 2004, 06:13 PM ----------------------------------- My full name is Angela Arabella Posette :) ----------------------------------- TdaC Saturday, 26 June 2004, 07:02 PM ----------------------------------- I didn't think of that, so you want a bribe tormie? :bigrinnin: Posy, do you think i should give tormie money? ----------------------------------- Posy Saturday, 26 June 2004, 08:43 PM ----------------------------------- :-k :-k :-k Give him what you want, but NO slice of cake [-X !! ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 08:43 PM ----------------------------------- :oops: :oops: :oops: ----------------------------------- tda42 Saturday, 26 June 2004, 09:02 PM ----------------------------------- Aaah...... 8-[ I hate to to say this but Tormie you left the water running in the Play House again and the beavers are building a damn in there.So if you would be so kind. :bigrinnin: .................. :-s ...................Psssst.......Pssst........TdaC I'll take some cake if you have any left Peeez! :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 09:40 PM ----------------------------------- :x :x :x [-( [-( [-( ----------------------------------- TdaC Saturday, 26 June 2004, 09:40 PM ----------------------------------- But posy, if i give tormie money he can buy a cake! tdac - one cake coming up :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- tda42 Saturday, 26 June 2004, 09:48 PM ----------------------------------- Thanx. :bigrinnin: That was very good.You make a great chief. :bigrinnin: .............. :-? ...........I think I hear Tormentor coming back. 8-[ ............Kenny looks to see if the gun is loaded with arms flopping around yelling Posy don't just do something stand there! :lmao: :lmao: ----------------------------------- TdaC Saturday, 26 June 2004, 09:59 PM ----------------------------------- :bigrinnin: ----------------------------------- Tormie Saturday, 26 June 2004, 10:07 PM ----------------------------------- 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ ----------------------------------- Den Tracy Sunday, 27 June 2004, 03:33 AM ----------------------------------- An apology changes nothing, nor will it make everything better because of the apology. I don't see it as a personal attack. What Micky said was in reference to all of the ones in the past. A name change was requested and refused for the sake of a $12.95 product. The character is being sold so that dolfinjtes can have money to buy Poser related items as she phrased it. I don't think that a delay of a few days would have killed them. All the apologies in the world will not make any difference. They are wrong and everyone who has contacted me by email or PM stands behind me in my claims to the character name. Any other "Bonnie" characters are insignificant as are the two artists. spook made some valid arguements and he knows what he is talking about. Most people do not understand what a copyright violation is, but think that they do. ----------------------------------- tda42 Sunday, 27 June 2004, 04:26 AM ----------------------------------- Yah I seen spook out there and he hit it on the head.But I said it in the forum as well.I think we all did and know one listened. :-s