Thank you Thilda!

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

It is no good to ask the uploader about permissions when the actual copyright owner who's clear terms have been violated is contactable.  After all one could be ingorant or lie.  We have had that happen before, resulting in our temporary acceptance of an unreleased  now commerical work.

Sending the email is to gather the facts in the case, the background of the upload items.  The information of the restrictions may have been forgotten at time of upload, but still, PF was at risk.   If the upload was done on independent inititive or by request, it is the uploader's task to only upload items that they have a right to so do.  If there is a clause in the license that says otherwise, then the uploader has to document that variance.  This is standard in all copyright protected field.  To fail to take immediate action on discovery of a problem or a possible violation, will place PF at risk.  Recall that if Staale were to learn of this upload through others, he could enforce the other parts of his statements in the readme of his original.  for legal and financial punishment of PF and of the uploader.   Also by not openly in the uploads database stating his contibution to the items, may be seen as an additional violation if he were to choose to be picky against PF in this matter.  The action taken was to settle to facts and none of it was permanent or undoable.  There is also wording in the licence that will permit them to be offered here at PF but not in the form that they have thus far been offered.

The terms are no obscure and the evidence by her other actions implies that she knew and understood the license in the issue.  It may have been an oversight by her.  She may have been granted permission to disregard that clause.  Or she may not have cared.  There are other options too that are not so nice to consider, so I will not now speak of them so that they will not distract from the issue.

How or why she came to upload them, by request or on her own, is not a factor.  It is the terms of the license that is.  If restored to the downloads, it will be in a fully legal and also moral way.  To do anything else, would be a step down a road that none of us would want to travel.

As someone who has lost much of his past work to such actions.  I would want to know that someone, regardless of past issues, is willing to defend my property rights when they are so challenged.  Also these actions protect the rights of Staale,  protect PF and Plus3D also from legal and finanical punishment.

Had I known all that Davide has now said about the background as he knew it, I would have acted the same.  None of that information has any bearings on the legal issues of this incident.  This was the only way to protect EVERYONE involved.  It is not being kind to so easy on such issues, it is being kind to protect one from action that may lead to punishment.

You're right Pangor, as I wrote before, blocking the files is the right thing to do.

What I would discuss is what to do with plus3d: I can swear on her good faith, the "contract" that she signed with Stahlratte is not exactly simple, I would have forgotten all the terms, also because probably she made the textures long ago and she simply put the same file here.

There can be a simple solution , as far as I know: instead of having the files on our server, we can simply use the link to her site, maybe not the file itself but to the web page. It should not violate anything (   )

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No one has said that she did not act in good faith. She could be a saint or an incarnation of mother Teresa, it doesn't matter. Stale's rules are simple and direct and it is only 3 rules.

1. No payment of any kind
2. No password or membership is required to access the file.
3. All text is intact and history updated if modified.

 
I think she probably forgot, she saw your thread at rosity and posted the pic of her character cause it is a Posette character and the thread was about Posette.  I believe it was an honest oversight on her part and ours for that matter. Pangor discovered the misstake and saved her and our butts by stopping the download.  

It is not about being mean to her and it doesn't matter how nice and kind she is. We have to follow stale's rules and his rules say no membership or password is to be required to access the texture. It is not something personal against her. That goes for anyone who modifies his textures. Stopping the download doesn't mean we have something against her being here. It means we follow his rules, and we have no choice but to follow his rules.
 
Why can't she stay a member. I don't feel that anything has to be done other than stopping the download. We could link to her site at the link exchange that is visable to non members. Or maybe Stale would be ok with her having the texture here. Until and if we hear from him, we don't know.

There is nothing stopping her from being an active member, we can encourge her in different ways. To post in the gallery, to write in the forums.  There are sites that have photos of bodyparts that we could give her links too, if she wants. Then Whatever she does with the photos from those sites would be hers to do with as she wants.

In the free stuff section I can arrange the page for the download in the way that clicking "download" you're redirected to the page of her site where the textures are. do you think that it's ok ? I think it's ok but I need your opinion

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I believe it will be ok. All you are doing is telling a person that at this link is where the texture is. Then it is their decision to click the download.   Now in some thought I don't think we have ever done this before and it might open a new door of downloading. Even a new rule or two.   But I think it is ok for that.

____________
Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

I already used this way here:

http://www.posetteforever.com/dload.php?action=file&file_id=389

The page is still on Posetteforever but you can see what I mean, in this case it will redirect on her page on googlepages. She replied me that she is going to fix the brokne zip on her site and then she'll let me know. Said this if we use a redirect the copyright problems that she can have won't affect us.

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Great! Yes I think this is the way to go.

____________
Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

That is the purpose of the email that I sent.  To determine that has permission been given for a variance from the blanket license; or shall we setup the secondary link form the PF download to her independent open and free site that is hosting the files; or because it is PF involved Staale would prefer for then not to be offered from here at all.  Since he is the copyright owner of the underlying texture maps, he has the right to also prohibit a particular site from promoting them by a secondary link.

Perhaps I should have spelled out every little detail of in this then we do that or else if not that we do the other.  However, since what Kenny has suggested has been in use for a long time for PF already; it did not seem that I needed to cover that.  Having a download suspended is not a shame, if there is a valid reason for it.  Here there was such a reason, also valid for the others that have been suspended for well over  a year and continue to be. Until the issues are resolved, such as broken links.  Mine have been suspended for a while, I suspended them when there was a problem.  And yes many of our items are already as offsite links.

If it goes as I expect, that is the solution that I foresaw, but for now need to wait for a reply from him.

I talked to plus3d and she doesn't look offended . For waht concerns stahlratte, the conditions to share the file are clearly written in the texture itself and there is no "all sites except posetteforever" so we don't have to care for his permission, if we put the texture like that (a redirection to a site's page external to posetteforever) it's nothing different than a simple forum page with a link. Thinking about it   using this method we could even organize the links in the forum in the free stuff page as a special section like "external freebies: links to Posette's resources" or a thing like this...

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"there is no "all sites except posetteforever" so we don't have to care for his permission, if we put the texture like that (a redirection to a site's page external to posetteforever) it's nothing different than a simple forum page with a link."


I don't think pangor meant it like that. I think he meant stale doesn't want it to be on a site that requires a membership or password. Since it is a freebie here at pf where u do need amembership & password, he wrote pf in his post.  


NOt related to this issue,  i have been looking through part of the freestuff. We need to remove the un-posette morph. In the discription at the download page it says that it is not her creation. That she has mixed  morphs she has found around the net. It seems that she doesn't know who the creators of the morphs she used are.

This goes to Davides last comment and not Thildas because as I was writing this she put hers in front of what I was trying to reply with Davides. So with that said here goes. I think if she was in the wrong she would take the texture off line and turn tail but I think that the original maker of the texture already knows of this and really to be quit honest with you, he doesn't seem to care. I'm sure that others have told him the same as us. Can somebody tell me if the copyright rules are even real. I don't even remember when Poser or anything came about where they started writing Read Me files to have a persons rights with Poser things and I have been out here along time that I think I would remember this. Not starting a war or anything.   God knows I have been threw this before.    But I thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss. This is my own feelings and please don't look at this the wrong way, but when I do free things. They are free. That's it. No more no less. Just free.   Its like when you give someone something and it is for free, you don't know what kind of shape it is in over the years. The green thing you gave is now painted blue. But you gave it free. Why would you care?   It is like sometimes we forget the meaning of Christmas and get lost in the buying and worries of if the one will like it or not. I'm afraid we have lost the meaning of free. Maybe we should look it up again and see what the word really means. If people gave free things and expected nothing except the good feeling of helping others then this legal crap wouldn't be here and we wouldn't be talking about it now. I will admit that some people will never learn for their own kind, but this is the reason I have in some ways given up on Poser. It has gotton way out of hand. Unconditional Love? Unconditional Free Stuff.

Please don't anyone be mad. But it seems that I feel like I can't voice myself anymore. To some who havn't been made aware of it my life is not going very well lately and to see this saddens me.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

"But it seems that I feel like I can't voice myself anymore. To some who havn't been made aware of it my life is not going very well lately and to see this saddens me."


First off, i am sorry to hear that you are not well. I hope things turn around for you and that it gets better soon.


The first part of the quoted statement, i agree with. I feel like i can't say what i think and feel here any more.

My dear Thilda I agree with everything you have said. I just wish it was like it was in the good ol days of Poser when it was so new. But its not and I will stand by you all in what ever you think is best. Your my friends.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

   Not agaiiin!!

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